Letting fires burn

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t76turbo
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by t76turbo »

rookie314 wrote:Wouldn’t it be nice if we could. So in your”expert” opinion how much equipment and manpower should be available to do what you ask? And how you gonna pay for it? Let’s build a house in the interface. It burns. Blame, blame, blame.

Seriously ?
Where do I blame anyone? I purchased my initial house less than 1 km from a former fire hall. Hardly an interface issue.When the order to evacuate came all those years ago I never left the area.I stayed behind and teamed up with couple guys and Ellison volunteer department to try and save homes and and we did. No one ever thought that on those fateful days,when those winds whiped up, that the fire would jumpe across an entire valley into Crawford Estates for example.

Fires are unpredictable, one never known when and where. All we can do is to be prepared.
So if one breaks out don’t second guess, hit it full force! And yes, pile of fires overnight with this last lightning storm.
I don’t want to hear from people in charge that a particulac fire poses no threat at a particular time and then two days later it has turned into an inferno that threatens life and property!
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

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My Wife and I were evacuated from Brent Road late last Wednesday night.
Pilots are told where & when to go. To think the Pilots may be responsible for these fires getting out of control is simply ludicrous. Those responsible, BC Wildfire Services, call the shots and knew thunderstorms were on there way. They also knew there was a 99% probability that lightening strikes would start fires in the Okanagan Valley. Were they ready?....who knows but actual events tell the story...

- this lightening strike was Tuesday just before 7pm
- it hit above Hwy 97 near Brent Rd. and less than 1 km from a 4x4 access road
- I called *5555 at 7:06pm to report it when it was the size of a small campfire
- no boots on the ground, no planes and no helicopters, yet sunset was several hours away
- Wednesday sunrise was about 5am and still nobody shows to stomp out this little fire
- about 10am the wind came up and the fire just exploded
- about 1pm they got excited and a helicopter arrived...too late fellas
- 10pm a Cop rings the doorbell and tells us to get out immediately...no warning at all
- I asked the Constable where we are to evacuate to and he has no idea (not even a direction N or S)
- Thursday morning My Wife finds out where we are to report in...
- Lakeview Baptist Church, 25km away from home---wtf?

I have no idea if this location was chosen by the Fire Chief, RDCO or Wildfire Services but someone needs an enema. It was manned by RDCO Staff. Next time they'll likely send Okanagan evacuees to fargin Vancouver! Many of my Neighbours stayed behind as they no longer trusted BC Wildfire Services to protect their properties.

Obviously BC Wildfire Services learned nothing from the 2003 Okanagan Mountain Park fire that destroyed 238 homes. If lightening strikes, isn't it logical to put ALL fires out when they're the size of campfires instead of sitting on your *bleep* till they get out of control? What a pack of incompetent idiots! We'd be better off with the Marx Bros. in charge and someone at BC Wildfire Services needs to be fired!

Many thanks to our hardworking Fire Crews (including the Pilots), they saved the day!
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t76turbo
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by t76turbo »

^^^^^^
This people. This is the problem. One helicopter. One bucket 2 hrs and would have been out!
Agrevation and worries for many eliminated, tens of thousands $ saved.

Sorry to hear and thanks for posting timeline!
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gardengirl
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by gardengirl »

t76turbo wrote:^^^^^^
This people. This is the problem. One helicopter. One bucket 2 hrs and would have been out!
Agrevation and worries for many eliminated, tens of thousands $ saved.

Sorry to hear and thanks for posting timeline!


I believe there were 13 fires causes by the lightning. So that would mean they needed 13 helicopters and 26 service hours by your estimate. Of course they are all sitting at the ready, able to be delivered like pizzas.

They also don't send out crews to every report of smoke. If they did, there would be choppers in the air, dumping water on your barbecue, your smoke belching diesel, Burger King and who knows what else.
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LTD
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by LTD »

gardengirl wrote:
t76turbo wrote:^^^^^^
This people. This is the problem. One helicopter. One bucket 2 hrs and would have been out!
Agrevation and worries for many eliminated, tens of thousands $ saved.

Sorry to hear and thanks for posting timeline!


I believe there were 13 fires causes by the lightning. So that would mean they needed 13 helicopters and 26 service hours by your estimate. Of course they are all sitting at the ready, able to be delivered like pizzas.

all were in close proximity one chopper could hit 3 another chopper could hit another area and so on why is it so hard for some of you to see this was handled all wrong. At the very least the first call made is get the helis out dropping water until ground crews can get there simple as that and during fire season they are ready to go its their bread and butter
Last edited by LTD on Jul 21st, 2018, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dogspoiler
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by dogspoiler »

I watched the Eneas fire, the Goode creek fire, and the Monroe FSR fires start from the lightning. There was lots of daylight for choppers. There was many hours in the morning to action those fires. Nothing was done. Then the fires burnt out of control.
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t76turbo
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Re: Letting fires burn

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Some of you are so clueless!. Phone calls were made,descriptions of fires were given, winds were going to be blowing.

Any smoke in the valley or hills should be investigated promptly, no excuses. Don’t care if it’s a 1950 cat diesel firing up, !nothing should be left to chance this time of year
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t76turbo
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Re: Letting fires burn

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Do we need to wait till somebody lays a class action suit against the province for incompetence next time structures burn? No. Let’s protect what we have and avoid further costly mistakes.
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

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"nothing should be left to chance this time of year" ...an absolutely logical statement...so what is their excuse?

The Province handed over control of highway maintenance to Contractors. Maybe it's about time this option was explored....couldn't do much worse. If the contracts demanded "a duty of care" and penalties were imposed for negligent acts like this one, that's more than we have now and probably cost a lot less too.

Like the 2017 Okanagan Lake flooding...nobody will accept responsibility for screwing up...the excuse will be "following protocols" or somehow be blamed on God as well.

alanjh595, you don't just let interface fires burn to be ecologically friendly! Besides, the Okanagan carbon footprint just quadrupled in 4 days.
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gardengirl
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by gardengirl »

t76turbo wrote:Some of you are so clueless!. Phone calls were made,descriptions of fires were given, winds were going to be blowing.

Any smoke in the valley or hills should be investigated promptly, no excuses. Don’t care if it’s a 1950 cat diesel firing up, !nothing should be left to chance this time of year


Oh dear. I am sure glad you are not in charge. I understand being stressed and upset, but this is irrational.
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gardengirl
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by gardengirl »

brentville wrote:"nothing should be left to chance this time of year" ...an absolutely logical statement...so what is their excuse?

The Province handed over control of highway maintenance to Contractors. Maybe it's about time this option was explored....couldn't do much worse. If the contracts demanded "a duty of care" and penalties were imposed for negligent acts like this one, that's more than we have now and probably cost a lot less too.

Like the 2017 Okanagan Lake flooding...nobody will accept responsibility for screwing up...the excuse will be "following protocols" or somehow be blamed on God as well.

alanjh595, you don't just let interface fires burn to be ecologically friendly! Besides, the Okanagan carbon footprint just quadrupled in 4 days.


So you think the privatization of road maintenance was a success?????
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

gardengirl wrote:
t76turbo wrote:Some of you are so clueless!. Phone calls were made,descriptions of fires were given, winds were going to be blowing.

Any smoke in the valley or hills should be investigated promptly, no excuses. Don’t care if it’s a 1950 cat diesel firing up, !nothing should be left to chance this time of year


Oh dear. I am sure glad you are not in charge. I understand being stressed and upset, but this is irrational.


....and what is so "irrational" about needing to investigating ALL smoke coming from the forest during fire season????
Sorry gardengirl, I want the likes of t76turbo in charge. Forest fires are a huge risk in BC and I want someone that thinks logically.
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

gardengirl wrote:
brentville wrote:"nothing should be left to chance this time of year" ...an absolutely logical statement...so what is their excuse?

The Province handed over control of highway maintenance to Contractors. Maybe it's about time this option was explored....couldn't do much worse. If the contracts demanded "a duty of care" and penalties were imposed for negligent acts like this one, that's more than we have now and probably cost a lot less too.

Like the 2017 Okanagan Lake flooding...nobody will accept responsibility for screwing up...the excuse will be "following protocols" or somehow be blamed on God as well.

alanjh595, you don't just let interface fires burn to be ecologically friendly! Besides, the Okanagan carbon footprint just quadrupled in 4 days.


So you think the privatization of road maintenance was a success?????


It's better than it was. If things had continued, as they have with ICBC, we'd have the most expensive maintenance in the nation and the least effective. Please tell me how ICBC is saving us money!!!!!!
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gardengirl
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by gardengirl »

gardengirl wrote:
brentville wrote:"nothing should be left to chance this time of year" ...an absolutely logical statement...so what is their excuse?

The Province handed over control of highway maintenance to Contractors. Maybe it's about time this option was explored....couldn't do much worse. If the contracts demanded "a duty of care" and penalties were imposed for negligent acts like this one, that's more than we have now and probably cost a lot less too.

Like the 2017 Okanagan Lake flooding...nobody will accept responsibility for screwing up...the excuse will be "following protocols" or somehow be blamed on God as well.

alanjh595, you don't just let interface fires burn to be ecologically friendly! Besides, the Okanagan carbon footprint just quadrupled in 4 days.


So you think the privatization of road maintenance was a success?????

brentville wrote:It's better than it was. If things had continued, as they have with ICBC, we'd have the most expensive maintenance in the nation and the least effective. Please tell me how ICBC is saving us money!!!!!!


Boy I guess you don't know anything about road maintenance. Lowest bidder gets the job. The do the absolute least possible to make the most profit. Terrifying to think of the same running firefighting.
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

gardengirl wrote:Boy I guess you don't know anything about road maintenance. Lowest bidder gets the job. The do the absolute least possible to make the most profit. Terrifying to think of the same running firefighting.


Maybe you missed where I stated, "If the contracts demanded "a duty of care" and penalties were imposed for negligent acts ".? BC Gov't contracts requires the Company put up a bond to cover non-compliance. Fail to perform what you've contracted to do and your bond gets attached....then the Company can argue their case in court. If the Contract is properly written, the taxpayer is protected from negligent acts. As it stands, BC Wildfire Services, will never be held liable for anything they do unless someone possibly dies. Do you recall in 2006, The Queen of the North sank killing two because the Provincial Employees on duty were screwing instead of navigating...the crew refused to testify and the dust still hasn't settled on this one 12 years later!!!!

These fires were allowed to get out of control yet someone accepted the job to make sure this doesn't happen. They failed to control the risk they were entrusted with. This is called "NEGLIGENCE"!
Just what do you see happening here?

I foresee those in charge commissioning an investigation, which they will orchestrate. The report will point out how Staff followed current procedures and it will list a bunch of areas that need improvement, then blame God. This is exactly what happened with the 2017 Okanagan Lake flooding. The man in charge lied about DFO requesting he keep the lake level high, the co-author of the inflow program (which compiles sno-melt & weather data and spits out what lake levels to set in order to avoid flooding) stated that the data being used was suspect http://www.oklst.com/2017Flood/KimHyatt.jpg" and the job description is literally to use weather data to avoid flooding yet blames GOD for "extreme weather".

I assume you don't like "Privatization"...well neither do I but it beats the hell outta track records like ICBC, BC Rail, BC Ferries, etc. By the way, how are your BRIC shares doing? Government has no business being in business! Crown corporations always become bloated, wasteful and incompetent. They also never accept any responsibility when they screw up!

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