Yates Road Fire Cause

dle
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Re: Yates Road - Grass Fire

Post by dle »

alanjh595 wrote:
dle wrote:right, they are very young and can't be charged and I'm glad of that - if they were 17 or 18 well different story.....I do hope though that there is a consequence for the kids in some way involving the fire department - if their parents can come up with some community service for them to do or something around the fire hall or the forestry dept. It will be interesting to see if the parents are held accountable - I agree with the poster who said what good will it really do - the kids need to "serve their own time" so to speak for the lesson to be meaningful to them. Maybe a donation from the parents of some amount they an afford to the Search & Rescue or another fund of the fire departments choosing?


How could anyone make an 9 year old and an 11 year old serve community service time? Even if I was a fireman, all I would want to do is hug them and embrace them and show off the fire truck. Firemen and police men/women have chosen their profession to HELP others.
Put any 2 kids of that age in a police car/firetruck and they would be excited. Does anyone expect anything different from them? Does anyone expect police and fire personnel to treat them badly and traumatize these kids into compliance?

Any donation enforced upon the parents will just be deducted from the child's future educational growth. Just think about it for a minute, Mom and Dad sit the (now young person) down and tell him/her that even thought their grades are good enough and that they are eligible to enter a college, BUT mom and dad can't afford it because of the fines levied upon them when the child was 9 years old.


I'm not talking about digging latrines like in the marines! I mean the fire dept and/or the forestry do educational things at schools etc all the time - why not have the kids speak on the dangers of doing something seemingly innocent and how fast it can go bad? Things of that nature. Helping out for a couple of days over the summer with things kids could do. I don't want them to hate the authorities - I want them to look up to the authorities who will be kind to them don't worry about it!. Who would ever suggest that the fire department or the police should treat them badly or traumatize them???

Also, I'm not talking about a donation that will bankrupt the parents! A donation of THEIR choosing into the fund coffers, wherever the fire department think it might help. What's so bad about that?
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alanjh595
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Re: Yates Road - Grass Fire

Post by alanjh595 »

alanjh595 wrote:Any donation enforced upon the parents will just be deducted from the child's future educational growth. Just think about it for a minute, Mom and Dad sit the (now young person) down and tell him/her that even thought their grades are good enough and that they are eligible to enter a college, BUT mom and dad can't afford it because of the fines levied upon them when the child was 9 years old.


I'm not talking about digging latrines like in the marines! I mean the fire dept and/or the forestry do educational things at schools etc all the time - why not have the kids speak on the dangers of doing something seemingly innocent and how fast it can go bad? Things of that nature. Helping out for a couple of days over the summer with things kids could do. I don't want them to hate the authorities - I want them to look up to the authorities who will be kind to them don't worry about it!. Who would ever suggest that the fire department or the police should treat them badly or traumatize them???

Also, I'm not talking about a donation that will bankrupt the parents! A donation of THEIR choosing into the fund coffers, wherever the fire department think it might help. What's so bad about that?[/quote]

ANY "donation enforced upon the parents" is still a fine or punishment. Just because someone calls it "a donation", especially when it is "enforced", still makes it punitive in nature and affects the bottom line of the entire household, and the future of the child's education and well being.
That child/children will have learned from this scientific experiment and will not repeat it again, lesson learned. They will also tell everyone of their friends from this day forward that repeating this experiment will result in negative results, based upon their personal experience.
Humans are one of the 2 mammals on this planet that can learn from other's mistakes and warn their friends of the hidden dangers.
They will inform others before they attempt this experiment, that the outcome will not be in their best interests and maybe explain why they have arrived at this conclusion. The best teachers are the piers that have the experience to substantiate their warnings. IF nothing else, they will put distance between themselves and the potential situation/repercussions of just being in the vicinity of others.

(Did my post make grammatical sense? )
Last edited by ferri on Jul 28th, 2018, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected quote.
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TreeGuy
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by TreeGuy »

The first problem I see Alan is that having the kids do this would reveal their identity which is protected. The SJWs would cry out that we are shaming them.
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alanjh595
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by alanjh595 »

TreeGuy wrote:The first problem I see Alan is that having the kids do this would reveal their identity which is protected. The SJWs would cry out that we are shaming them.


I agree. I spoke to many of my neighbours and those that were closer to the fire than I was. There was never any mention of the children. They were disgusted by the behaviour of the "lookie-loos", that blocked the roads and prevented them from getting home to rescue their pets and important items.
It was the irresponsible adults that caused the greatest problems.

Those are the ones that should be charged with a criminal offence.
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dle
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by dle »

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Jul 28th, 2018, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: I have corrected the quote.
anniekate
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by anniekate »

This incident hits close to home. I am going back many, many years...I am a parent of a child who did something similar to these boys. I say similar because my son and friends were playing with a lighter and a small fire was started under a tree, a branch caught fire, and a single tree began to burn. The fire was put out very quickly by the local fire department and there was no other damage. After talking to the local dispatch, we returned to the fire and the fire chief had a heart to heart with my son and asked me to enrol my son in a fire smart program at the Firehall.
dle
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by dle »

anniekate wrote:This incident hits close to home. I am going back many, many years...I am a parent of a child who did something similar to these boys. I say similar because my son and friends were playing with a lighter and a small fire was started under a tree, a branch caught fire, and a single tree began to burn. The fire was put out very quickly by the local fire department and there was no other damage. After talking to the local dispatch, we returned to the fire and the fire chief had a heart to heart with my son and asked me to enrol my son in a fire smart program at the Firehall.



Thanks for posting this - this followup by you, as the parent, and the fire department, is the type of thing I have been nattering about in my posts lol and I think would be good for the boys in this situation. They don't need to be "charged" with anything at that age but they absolutely do need to learn and appreciate how extremely serious what they did was and the damage that could have happened. I totally agree that having the fire department involved in the lesson is a great idea and kudos to you for the way you handled it!

Happy your tree fire turned out ok! Can I ask if the fire smart program was a day session, or a few trips to the firehall?
dle
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by dle »

alanjh595 wrote:
TreeGuy wrote:The first problem I see Alan is that having the kids do this would reveal their identity which is protected. The SJWs would cry out that we are shaming them.


I agree. I spoke to many of my neighbours and those that were closer to the fire than I was. There was never any mention of the children. They were disgusted by the behaviour of the "lookie-loos", that blocked the roads and prevented them from getting home to rescue their pets and important items.
It was the irresponsible adults that caused the greatest problems.

Those are the ones that should be charged with a criminal offence.


Interesting....I heard from family that lives in that area that they are surprised as heck this hasn't happened before now. He said he has seen kids on the hillside lighting little fires and reported them. They are now very aware come summertime and things start getting dry knowing this stuff is happening up there. He has spoken to a neighbour who says the same thing. Have any of you posters ever noticed that type of thing going on?

Anyways, keep your eyes peeled if you live up there, or in any interface area, because things can go real bad real fast, although I'm guessing most people who do live near wooded areas find their spidey-sense on high alert come fire season....

I agree the looky-loos need to think and back off - they should imagine themselves in that position and had family or pets to get to quickly...
anniekate
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by anniekate »

Die... I believe my son went 4 weeks @1 1/2 hrs each. He is an adult now and spends a lot of his summer in a remote area of B.C. He has a very healthy respect for fire and as a teenager 4x4ing in the bush carried shovels, fire extinguisher and jugs of water.
dle
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by dle »

anniekate wrote:Die... I believe my son went 4 weeks @1 1/2 hrs each. He is an adult now and spends a lot of his summer in a remote area of B.C. He has a very healthy respect for fire and as a teenager 4x4ing in the bush carried shovels, fire extinguisher and jugs of water.


Hope the fire departments still offer great programs like this one and I'd say you can pat yourself on the back for taking those extra steps with your boy. Sounds like your son grew up to be a very woods-wise young man and a real caretaker of our forests! Give him an "atta-boy" for me and all of us who love the back country - "Smokey would be proud"! :up:
BLACKIE
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by BLACKIE »

Castanet's poll on "should parents pay". Hard to believe so many of us think they should pay, how are we going to bill them, by the hour? by the fire fighter's cost? by the air tankers and helicopters cost? The real cost to this is probably 100k or more. Let's put the parents on welfare should we. Of course lets make it tough on the kids with the age taken in too consideration. But charge parents, really...…….
LTD
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by LTD »

yup really
Nikibear
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by Nikibear »

If I break something I am responsible for replacing it or help fixing it. I have taught my children the same at a very early age. If they make poor choices there are consequences even if the intent was not to harm. Running around with a lighter. Come on it’s the parents responsibility to teach about fire how to put one out and what the dry weather could do. The hole family needs to go up there and help replant it. They need to show that they are sorry. Playing with fire is bad And i find it hard to believe they didn’t know that. Time and place for hugs however not when you burn down a mountain.
dle
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by dle »

For those who want the parents to pay, how can they be required to pay when the fools who deliberately ski out of bounds and have to be rescued don't have to pay? What about the snowmobilers who start avalanches by either by high-marking or entering an area that's clearly posted "do not enter - avalanche danger", or just plain ducking under the restricted area signs and get lost? They aren't required to pay when they need rescuing. Even the most stupid of them doing the mind-boggling stuff are never required to pay even though there are signs and ads all the time that they COULD have to.

What's the point of a warning like that anyways if everyone knows they never follow through on it? Doesn't deter anybody - only reason someone won't do a thing is they realize it would just be really stupid to do it. Empty threats are useless and in this case it was the kids who probably didn't know about the fine warning, not the parents who know about the warnings, who started the fire.

Any of you ever have one of your kids defy you by doing something you had taught them was wrong ? You can't be with them 24/7 - and most of them will get up to something they shouldn't - (and know they shouldn't) at some point or another.

The kids need the consequence for their actions and @annikate's solution to a more minor but similar incident sounds like a good one to me.
dle
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Re: Yates Road Fire Cause

Post by dle »

Maybe in addition to the kids having to attend the sessions on fire safety, the parents can also pronounce a punishment of the kids having to donate their allowances to the fire department's fund for a certain amount of time (long enough to be painful for the kids in order to make them think twice next time before they want to act on some cockamamie scheme they've dreamed up that's a really bad idea).

That way the kids get the consequences and take their own lumps for their own actions.

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