A little question about electric cars

[nepal]

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An even very slightly damaged battery (or even the protection cover) could result in the EV value being totally written-off. These big batteries are mounted along the bottom of the vehicle, thus susceptible to minor road rash, which could be the end for the vehicle. Nobody wants liability of an even slightly damaged battery case, for fear the battery might explode.

Many are very happy with their pure EVs, but this issue is sobering.

[BC Landlord]

Many are very happy with their pure EVs, but this issue is sobering.

It's been an issue ever since. EVs are basically batteries on wheels. And once their battery is gone, either by age or damage, that vehicle has no resale value. Many of first adopters are finding that out themselves, as their vehicle's batteries are already reaching the end of their useful life.

[nepal]

So for a nice EV that cost $55,000+tax-grants, to now be on the market used for $36,000, in only 1.5yrs, with just 35,000km, how is this being economical by using electricity…or is it just to try to be environmentally minded? Or maybe this is similar depreciation for all cars?
Is there a good market for used EVs, I don’t know!
The government, planning to force everyone into EVs, could get very costly.

[nepal]

Hybrids IMO are currently the best alternative, as they put zero demand on electric grid. and recover otherwise lost energy due to braking and coasting. And zero range anxiety.

“Replacing ICEs with EVs will materially increase carbon emissions and may worsen the problem. Manufacturing an electric vehicle consumes far more energy than an ICE. Most of this additional energy is spent mining the materials for and manufacturing an EV’s giant lithium-ion battery. Mining companies use energy-intensive trucks, crushers, and mills to extract each battery’s nickel, cobalt, lithium, and copper. The manufacturing process consumes vast amounts of energy as well. Many analysts eagerly tout the carbon savings from displaced fossil fuels without adequately accounting for the battery’s increased energy consumption. Once these adjustments are made, most, if not all, of the EV’s carbon advantage disappears.”

A combination of EV, PHEV, HEV & ICE might prevail, depending on which type best fits individual needs. EV’s are a good fit for some drivers, and will get better as tech and grid improves.. HEVs might achieve the quickest consumer buy-in, and thus the most immediate reduction in overall energy use.

[LovemyBolt]

Hybrids IMO are the best alternative, as they put zero demand on electric grid. and recovered otherwise lost energy due to braking and coasting. And zero range anxiety.

“Replacing ICEs with EVs will materially increase carbon emissions and may worsen the problem. Manufacturing an electric vehicle consumes far more energy than an ICE. Most of this additional energy is spent mining the materials for and manufacturing an EV’s giant lithium-ion battery. Mining companies use energy-intensive trucks, crushers, and mills to extract each battery’s nickel, cobalt, lithium, and copper. The manufacturing process consumes vast amounts of energy as well. Many analysts eagerly tout the carbon savings from displaced fossil fuels without adequately accounting for the battery’s increased energy consumption. Once these adjustments are made, most, if not all, of the EV’s carbon advantage disappears.”

Non-Plug-in hybrids "put zero demand on electric grid" other than the electricity required to run the gas pumps as with all ICEV's. There are also plug-in hybrids.

As has been mentioned time and time again around here, yes, up to the EV rolling off the dealer lot, the making of EV's produces more than the making of ICEV's. But depending on how your utility generates power, once that EV is on the road, the carbon emissions are minimal compared to ICEV's that continuously emit while running. Here in BC we have almost entirely renewable energy. Even the stuff that gets imported is a much larger proportion of renewable. So over the lifetime of each vehicle, the ICEV emits more after a year or two of usage. And continues to do so.

[Jlabute]

So for a nice EV that cost $55,000+tax-grants, to now be on the market used for $36,000, in only 1.5yrs, with just 35,000km, how is this being economical by using electricity…or is it just to try to be environmentally minded? Or maybe this is similar depreciation for all cars?
Is there a good market for used EVs, I don’t know!
The government, planning to force everyone into EVs, could get very costly.

Why would anyone want to sell their perfect money-saving car? lol. Tesla is laying off 15,000 employees and that will barely help the ailing EV maker. Prices on EVs are dropping and makers are not making anything on their vehicles. Surely, hydrogen vehicles are having a tough time, and so are EVs right now. Something tells me we will not have 100% adoption by 2035. LOL.

The mandates were too soon, too fast, and were not comensurate with the level of technology.

[The Green Barbarian]

So for a nice EV that cost $55,000+tax-grants, to now be on the market used for $36,000, in only 1.5yrs, with just 35,000km, how is this being economical by using electricity…or is it just to try to be environmentally minded? Or maybe this is similar depreciation for all cars?
Is there a good market for used EVs, I don’t know!
The government, planning to force everyone into EVs, could get very costly.

Why would anyone want to sell their perfect money-saving car? lol. Tesla is laying off 15,000 employees and that will barely help the ailing EV maker. Prices on EVs are dropping and makers are not making anything on their vehicles. Surely, hydrogen vehicles are having a tough time, and so are EVs right now. Something tells me we will not have 100% adoption by 2035. LOL.

The mandates were too soon, too fast, and were not comensurate with the level of technology.

or commensurate with the actual "crisis" that doesn't exist but yet our idiot government feels the need to "solve", with bad ideas and horrid wastes of our national blood and treasure.

[liisgo]

In all fairness to the facts of speaking about countries like Norway, or any other European or Asian country, they have always focused on front wheel or just a 2 wheel drive type vehicle that focus's on fuel mileage.
Why has the west not adopted a program that could help people move to extremely efficient ICE vehicle's.
With cars like the Toyota corolla out there getting incredible fuel mileage, it would allow a huge advantage for those wanting to contribute to this claimed climate emergency at a fraction of the cost of an EV.
Hey, its a start.

[nepal]

In all fairness to the facts of speaking about countries like Norway, or any other European or Asian country, they have always focused on front wheel or just a 2 wheel drive type vehicle that focus's on fuel mileage.
Why has the west not adopted a program that could help people move to extremely efficient ICE vehicle's.
With cars like the Toyota corolla out there getting incredible fuel mileage, it would allow a huge advantage for those wanting to contribute to this claimed climate emergency at a fraction of the cost of an EV.
Hey, its a start.

I agree that European and Asian countries are better at focusing on fuel mileage conservation, and this being a help in mitigating climate/environmental change, maybe partly as a result of relatively higher fuel prices in those regions.
In North America, it is ridiculous how excessively large and heavy vehicles are driven for no good reason, partly due to relatively low fuel prices. A modification of vehicle license fees could address excessive large vehicles; with higher fee by weight and energy efficiency for non-commercial vehicles. Relatively higher fuel prices also motivate fuel conservation. Having said that, it’s a bit contradictory how some EVs are excessively large and heavy, and often transport one person. Effective public transport is also lacking in North America.

On the extreme end of conservation, in some countries, a family of four cling on to a single scooter, whereas in North America it’s not uncommon to see a F150 driver(only) pull into a grocery store parking lot and come out with a tiny bag and drive away (the truck never used as a truck). There are massive excesses everywhere: motorhomes, speedboats, cruise liners, airliners, excessive houses, bitcoin mining, wars, disposable everything, etc… Much higher energy prices will be a big conservation motivator.

Earth had 3-billion people in 1960, and now we’ve exceeded 8-billion, so the magnitude of excesses of all consumption, is growing exponentially and unsustainably. EVs are a small part of the solution.

Another perspective:

[nepal]

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EV batteries are apparently lasting a long time, albeit capacity may diminish some.

[LovemyBolt]

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EV batteries are apparently lasting a long time, albeit capacity may diminish some.

What?! That can't be right. Somebody over in the BC Mandatory thread says batteries have to be replaced in 8 years. They're saying that anonymously on the internet while not owning an EV themselves so it has to right. Right? lol
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-p ... ents-rare/

[Jlabute]

I suppose the world will find out as EVs are still a new thing. Tesla didn’t begin selling EVs in quantity until 2012. The Leaf had sales in 2011. It all wasn’t that long ago. Some older leafs have had 5 battery replacements and all Bolts have had a battery replacement. Only recently have large quantities of EVs begun selling.

It is from an original study by a company called “Recurrent” that looked at battery replacements that were done. Of course, not everyone will DO a required battery replacement especially when they find out how much a new battery will cost. The report also says this, “Most battery replacements occur under warranty” which I assume is <= 8 years or a certain mileage.

Maybe your car battery will last 10 or 20 years, although, no car battery has lasted 20 years yet. If you do need a replacement, there won’t be one available. So the vehicle is actually disposable, either due to cost or availability of parts.

Those who do buy a new battery are the 15000 owners (1.5%) in every million wondering if they should spend $30,000 or more. As the actual bulk of EVs age, we will see what will happen. Hertz and SIXT didn’t think EVs were good.

Why do 1 in 3 switch back to a gas car? Also, “Overall consumer consideration for buying a BEV dropped to 52% from an 81% high in 2021”. So far, the experience has not been overwhelmingly good, especially for trucks.

[77TA]

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EV batteries are apparently lasting a long time, albeit capacity may diminish some.

What?! That can't be right. Somebody over in the BC Mandatory thread says batteries have to be replaced in 8 years. They're saying that anonymously on the internet while not owning an EV themselves so it has to right. Right? lol
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-p ... ents-rare/

The actual study on this would interest me if you (or anyone) are able to find it and post a link. Not sure why it wouldn't be included with that vague little article.

[Jlabute]

So for a nice EV that cost $55,000+tax-grants, to now be on the market used for $36,000, in only 1.5yrs, with just 35,000km, how is this being economical by using electricity…or is it just to try to be environmentally minded? Or maybe this is similar depreciation for all cars?
Is there a good market for used EVs, I don’t know!
The government, planning to force everyone into EVs, could get very costly.

Right. It is cheaper to buy gas considering how much the vehicle depreciates. Take away the rebates and fewer would ever buy an EV. There won’t be any rebates after the 2025 election. Governments are insane to use public money to artificially push the market towards a more expensive option. Same decisions that deindustrialize societies is causing economic suicide. The green blob has no limits nor do they understand balance. Trudeau is a big part of the green blob killing Canada.

[Jlabute]

What?! That can't be right. Somebody over in the BC Mandatory thread says batteries have to be replaced in 8 years. They're saying that anonymously on the internet while not owning an EV themselves so it has to right. Right? lol
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-p ... ents-rare/

The actual study on this would interest me if you (or anyone) are able to find it and post a link. Not sure why it wouldn't be included with that vague little article.

My guess is the “study” was done by Liz the math wiz. She could also be totally in left field, who knows. The data is taken from a small car population of recurrent auto vehicles - 15000 of them. She also says it is a challenge since EVs haven’t been around long enough. After-all, 30% of all EVs were sold in 2022.


https://www.recurrentauto.com/research ... eries-last