Interstellar Spaceflight

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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Ka-El » May 12th, 2020, 12:41 pm

JagXKR wrote: The whole idea of interstellar flight occurring before any human currently alive passes on is ridiculous.
There is NO realistic way to get to neighboring stars with current understanding of physics AND engineering. Just a lot of science fiction with no real world solutions for solving major engineering roadblocks.

That is absolutely true. Not in our lifetime with our current knowledge and understanding. Still, if we look at the rate of advancement in human knowledge, we can only imagine the discoveries and the changes we will see in the next fifty to one hundred years. There are all kinds of possibilities out of the field of quantum physics, and scientists are studying the possibility of using gravity waves. Ya, this will be like nothing we know of to date but imagine showing some cowboy how you do your banking on your iphone. I also hope I’m still alive to watch humanity’s first attempt of humans to reach Mars. This is very exciting stuff, and while few of us could predict how long it will take for us to start travelling out of our solar system, I still predict it will be within the next hundred years. We can only imaging how different everything will be by then.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Jlabute » May 12th, 2020, 6:10 pm

According to the science show “idiocracy”, all scientific advancements in the future will be in the area of hair-loss and penis enlargement.

To add to the artificial gravity, you could accelerate at 1g to 0.99c, then accelerate at -1g to 0.95c, etc.

I don’t think we will have anything near 10%c for 200 years until we leave the space snuff era.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Sonny Taylor » May 13th, 2020, 12:35 am

Jlabute wrote:According to the science show “idiocracy”, all scientific advancements in the future will be in the area of hair-loss and penis enlargement.


VERY astute observation!
:130: [icon_lol2.gif]

As for OldTrucker...

Your Moniker belies the level of thought about physics you engender (no insult intended to truckers).

Thanks folks for running with an interesting thread at this lousy time. Was a good read that induced a few thoughts I might comment on later. But for now I have to say thanks for engaging me.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby TylerM4 » May 13th, 2020, 7:55 am

Jlabute wrote:According to the science show “idiocracy”, all scientific advancements in the future will be in the area of hair-loss and penis enlargement.


I love that movie. I do think it was released about a decade too soon. Right about the time Trump became president would have been perfect ;)


Good idea around continuously accelerating/decelerating as you approach maximum velocity. If you have the fuel to do this, it would be a viable way to sustain an artificial gravity without greatly lengthening the trip.

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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Jlabute » May 14th, 2020, 1:24 pm

Thanks! Well, yes, considering 'energy' is not a limitation. We will soon fit 1.21 jigawatts in a tiny compartment. Then anything will be possible. :-)


https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110015936.pdf
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby bb49 » May 16th, 2020, 9:35 am

The problem I see with finding a way to get to some distant galaxy really fast, say within 100 years, is that during those 100 years, the folks back home discover even faster ways to travel.
So those on the 100 year voyage get to their destination and find out Earthings, their own people, have been there for decades.
Hey, what took you so long?
Didn't you see us wave as we went by?

But seriously, if we want to travel to distant places in the universe, we have to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light.
Teleporting? Wormholes? The speed of light still isn't fast enough.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Ka-El » May 16th, 2020, 9:56 am

bb49 wrote: But seriously, if we want to travel to distant places in the universe, we have to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light. Teleporting? Wormholes? The speed of light still isn't fast enough.

I would not be surprised to see that problem solved within the next 100 years. The rate of change, including technological advancement, is going to continue to accelerate and I suspect we're going to see massive social (and political) change on a global scale over the next fifty years. I'll be lucky to make another 25 years, but these are indeed interesting times. In some ways I wish I could be among the people who are going to be around to witness it. I sure hope it works out.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby alanjh595 » May 16th, 2020, 9:59 am

My question is, if we are ever able to fly at a speed greater than the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, will they work?
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby oldtrucker » May 16th, 2020, 10:36 am

alanjh595 wrote:My question is, if we are ever able to fly at a speed greater than the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, will they work?


Thou shalt not add thy velocity to the speed of light whilst on a moving platform.
One of Albert's laws.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby alanjh595 » May 16th, 2020, 10:58 am

The mathematical solution to my query is:

As another example of the relative nature of speeds, consider a criminal barreling down High Street, driving his getaway car. As seen by an innocent bystander, the car has a velocity v = 30 meters/second (about 67 mph). The criminal draws his gun, and shoots a bullet in the direction he is traveling. Relative to the car, the bullet has a velocity u = 250 meters/second (the muzzle speed of a bullet from a .45 automatic).
To summarize the situation:
Speed of car relative to bystander = v = 30 meters/second

Speed of bullet relative to car = u = 250 meters/second

To find the speed of the bullet relative to the bystander, just add the speeds together:
Speed of bullet relative to bystander = v + u = 280 meters/second.


Another interesting fact is regarding the speed of a bullet, here on Earth's gravity.

Did you know that a bullet fired from a gun (and NO it doesn't matter what caliber or muzzle velocity) and a bullet that is dropped at the exact same time, with zero velocity, will hit the ground at exactly the same time?

For the sake of visualization. Let's say that one bullet is hanging on a thread at the muzzle,so that when the bullet exits the gun,it breaks the thread, both bullets will hit the ground at the exact same time.

Just a little brain teaser.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Jlabute » May 16th, 2020, 10:58 am

alanjh595 wrote:My question is, if we are ever able to fly at a speed greater than the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, will they work?


If you go faster than light speed, perhaps everything in front of you would be Doppler shifted and invisible, and everything behind you would be dark since no photons will keep up. Perhaps you just wouldn’t see anything at all, with or without headlights, lol.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby alanjh595 » May 16th, 2020, 11:09 am

oldtrucker wrote:
alanjh595 wrote:My question is, if we are ever able to fly at a speed greater than the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, will they work?


Thou shalt not add thy velocity to the speed of light whilst on a moving platform.
One of Albert's laws.


Albert Einstein doesn't have ANY laws. He had theories that lead to discoveries of the "Laws of Physics".

Theories can change, Laws of Physics can not.
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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Vacancyrate » May 31st, 2020, 8:44 am

Mass can be manipulated, eventually.

We've discovered the particle that assigns mass to matter. Eventually we will be able to program mass and assign or remove mass from objects.

It won't be hard to accelerate to the speed of light when you have zero mass, and alternatively if we assign infinite mass to something or an area of spacetime we can push ourselves around with mini black holes, slow down time or even create wormholes.

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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby JustaCivilian » Jul 3rd, 2020, 8:17 pm

Some thoughts. Perhaps off subject.

We’ve around 5,000 years of partially recorded history of our civilization and no more that 100 years of useful technology relating to getting a handle on what we are seeing thru our instruments (satellites probes ,telescopes, colliders etc.).

Time wise our complete history is a flash in the pan on the universe’s scale.

We’re babes in arms compared to where we need to be to even contemplate interstellar manned travel.

Distance
Speed
Time
Logistics

All present insurmountable problems to our PRESENT level of technology.



However the fates have given us a very rich solar system to keep us “bee style” busy for the next 10,000 years or so while we take our first baby steps into space

- colonies on Mars,
- colonies in the asteroid belts in hollowed out mini moons
- terra forming of Venus/Mars
- movement of a few of Jupiter and Saturn’s surplus moons into earth’s “green zone” orbit
- probes, thousands of advanced tech probes, sent out in a 360 globe radius to survey any likely candidates for colonization
- heck even a decent planned approaching to sustainable human growth and earth resource development is a desperate necessary

As for space , we may be well advised to concentrate our first efforts to managing defenses against our system’s environmental hazards - (rogue comets, asteroids, solar flares).

Lots to do – unbelievable challenges for the next 1,000 generations – right here in our own system



Now. . .

Perhaps it seems we’ve been given a bad hand regarding interstellar conquest.

But on reflection it seems fate has hopefully given us a safe nursery to develop into a race capable of defending our selves from any perils

The vast difficulties involved give us time.

Precious time to develop our tech.

Colonization of a earth like planet . . .

One must note our present difficulty defending ourselves from an earth evolved pathogen let alone bringing back home a pathogen evolved under an alien planets environment.

Obviously we need time to develop a better understanding of how to maintain human lives against nature’s creativity.




Encountering another intelligent space faring race.

Our xenophobia amongst our own species is one of our worst problems , does anyone think that that is a unique human characteristic?

If they are more advanced than us – a deadly, species existence threatening, problem.

We are a threat to ourselves let along any alien species, at a minimum they would destroy our space faring capabilities for their own safety.

If they are not more advanced than us, a moral problem as we do seem to have a history of exploration of technologically less advance human cultures.

Space’s vastness gives needed time to advance our technology for interstellar warfare (something we are really good at) and/or our moral compass.



However – when we do get around to interstellar expansion we will have defeated the real problem.

Not the seemingly gargantuan distances nor the limitations of the puny speed of the light/matter relationship.

When we take our next “giant leap for mankind” .

We will have defeated the real enemy precluding our conquest of the Universe. - TIME

IMHO

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Re: Interstellar Spaceflight

Postby Vacancyrate » Jul 4th, 2020, 11:03 am

I figured out how to build a time machine - but you can only see the future.

All you need is a faster-than-light communication device in a probe and a large gravity-well. Not a black hole persay but just close to a very large mass.

1. Send a probe into the gravity well.

2. Time slows down for probe, speeds up for us (probes perspective)

3. Probe would focus back on us - recording time speeding up and to us, recording our future.

4. Faster than light communication would beam that "accelerated time information" back to us and we'd know the future.

The only thing I believe would be an issue would that in information would be sped-up or compressed because of the time shift so it would be almost like listening to a Alvin and the Chipmunks record - everything very fast. The "future" information would have to be uncompressed or slowed down for us to be able to read it.

Anyways I invented a time machine.
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