Electric Vehicles

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foenix
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by foenix »

Jlabute wrote: May 10th, 2022, 2:22 pm
captkirkcanada wrote: May 5th, 2022, 9:59 am Better faster batts coming sooner than later

https://www.thebrighterside.news/post/f ... -15-minute
We will see. They are not manufacturing it yet, and 'believes' does not inspire much confidence especially when bigger players haven't cracked it yet. Maybe they want investors ;)
QuantumScape believes its solid-state platform will be ready for production by 2025.
We're just in the transition phase....EV technology is bound to be painful for a while. I'm sure the same was said of ICE during their transition from the horse and buggy.
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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Horse and buggy went to EV in the early 1800’s, and over a number of decades they were found to be so inadequate, it led to the invention of gas vehicles, steam vehicles, etc. Gas caught on with cheap plentiful fuel while EVs totally died out.

New batteries will be along at some point, but I’ve noticed enormous exaggerations and promises for when new battery tech will be in manufacturing. Solid State batteries would be an incremental improvement. We can still do much better given the time.

Electric cars have existed since at least 1834, long before gasoline cars were invented. Since the beginning, they have faced the same hurdles they do today: limited driving range and a lack of charging infrastructure. But things are changing fast.
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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Nikola pays $125M to settle fraud charges. The money will be used to pay back retail investors who for at least 7 months, were deceived by false product technical advancements and commercial prospects.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... cebf276a1e
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alanjh595
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Jlabute wrote: May 12th, 2022, 4:22 pm Nikola pays $125M to settle fraud charges. The money will be used to pay back retail investors who for at least 7 months, were deceived by false product technical advancements and commercial prospects.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... cebf276a1e
In a Tuesday statement, the SEC said Nikola, which has not admitted or denied the agency's findings, is responsible for Milton's allegedly misleading statements and other alleged deceptions that inflicted harm on retail investors.
Bring back the LIKE button.
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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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alanjh595 wrote: May 12th, 2022, 4:53 pm
Jlabute wrote: May 12th, 2022, 4:22 pm Nikola pays $125M to settle fraud charges. The money will be used to pay back retail investors who for at least 7 months, were deceived by false product technical advancements and commercial prospects.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... cebf276a1e
In a Tuesday statement, the SEC said Nikola, which has not admitted or denied the agency's findings, is responsible for Milton's allegedly misleading statements and other alleged deceptions that inflicted harm on retail investors.
Not sure what point you’re trying to make Alan. Nikola has already agreed to pay the large fine which is pretty much an admission, and their stock has fallen to an all time low. They have no revenue and they are lying about their product. It doesn’t look good.

Electric-truck maker Nikola has agreed to pay $125 million to settle charges that it defrauded investors by misleading them about its business, the Securities and Exchange Commission announced Tuesday, following a more than yearlong investigation sparked by fraud accusations against departed founder Trevor Milton, who's tumbled out of the billionaire ranks amid the resulting turmoil.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/n ... -investors
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Jlabute wrote: May 10th, 2022, 10:11 pm Horse and buggy went to EV in the early 1800’s, and over a number of decades they were found to be so inadequate, it led to the invention of gas vehicles, steam vehicles, etc. Gas caught on with cheap plentiful fuel while EVs totally died out.

New batteries will be along at some point, but I’ve noticed enormous exaggerations and promises for when new battery tech will be in manufacturing. Solid State batteries would be an incremental improvement. We can still do much better given the time.

Electric cars have existed since at least 1834, long before gasoline cars were invented. Since the beginning, they have faced the same hurdles they do today: limited driving range and a lack of charging infrastructure. But things are changing fast.
That's not exactly true. They been around, never went away and grew side by side with ICE. It's not that they were inadequate, they weren't as affordable as the ICE at the time.....but that might change in the future as more money is spent on research like during the baby stage of ICE.

Worth the Watt: A Brief History of the Electric Car, 1830 to Present

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g ... o-present/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Electric infrastructure needed for charging was inadequate during the early 1900's, as it is also today. The range of the electric vehicles was dismal at 25mi for some of them, and the charge time was horrible. EVs totally died out, meaning, they were not a practical part of life on earth for almost 100 years, and for 99.99% of the population. Plenty of time to do some battery research. Motors are fine, but we are still working on batteries.

When you have a 2000lb battery that can only take you 25 miles, you have a problem. Yes, they were inadequate, otherwise, more people would have had one even if it was more expensive. Once the EV1 came, it had a range of ~50 miles, so not a lot of progress in 100 years, and it was expensive.

I am sure some people protested the crushing of the EV1, but that was a memory that needed to be wiped out.
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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I'm new to this topic, read some but I'm not prepared to read 82 pages to get fully up to speed so I apologies if some of what I say is repetitious.

The information and understanding of electric vehicles is like any new item coming on the market.

I remember when the microwave came out. The first ones were about as heavy as a Buick and cost about the same. There were cook books, how to cook a roast, a cake, the microwave was going to replace the stove.

Now fiftyish years later, even a full sized top of the line microwave weighs in at about 50 pounds, at around $800, and is used mostly for heating up leftovers, coffee, melting butter, making popcorn, thawing out meat to cook on another appliance. Reality.

The information on electric vehicles, their reliability, their range, their cost and the cost of accessories such as a home charging station is all over the map.

There are many variables, but lets look at some averages for some average people.

Based on fairly good gas efficiency lets take 10 litres per 100 kms, that's not the best and it's certainly not the worst. Take a cost of $2.00 a litre. Electricity at .1368 a kwh.

Industry standards says it takes 16.875 kwh to travel 100 kms. So today that's $2.31 per 100 kms. At $2.00 a ltr with fuel efficiecy of 10 ltrs per 100 kms that's $20 per 100 kms (yikes, that sounds high, doesn't it ?) So the savings would be $20 - $2.31 = $17.69 per 100 kms.

Now depending on how much you use a vehicle you save proportionately.

Personally I average 10,000 kms per year. So I'd save $1,729 a year. (now that sounds low, doesn't it ?)

Costs. There's the electric vehicle, we'll go there in a minute. One has to charge their vehicle. But it's not that simple. There are level 1, level 2 and level 3 chargers.

Level 1 is the cheapest, all you need is a dedicated circuit where you intend to charge your electric vehicle. You plug the charger in (three prong) and you charge. Oh, and you charge, and you charge. Hydro says you get a range of about 8 kms per hour. About 12 to 20 hours to fully charge a vehicle.

Level 2 (likely the most desirable), charger $1000 minimum, Hydro will give up to a $350 rebate, plus another $800 +/- to install. Hydro says you will get a range of 30 kms per hour, 6 to 15 hours for a full charge.

Now the vehicle... According to "Make It" electric vehicle cost on average ? $10,000 USD more than a gas fueled vehicle, so CDN $13,000. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/29/electri ... rices.html

Simplistically for me the saving of $1,729 a year would be made up in 7½ years. There would be more savings like maintenance on the gas fueled vehicle verses the electric, but actually my vehicle gets around 8 ltr per 100 kms so I'd actually add another year to the time it would take to recoup the cost, plus the cost of the charging station of ? $2000 minimum making the elapsed time to recoup closer to 11, 12 years.

And a big point you have to consider... At this moment do I need to replace my vehicle ? Using "Make It" numbers the average electric vehicle cost in the neighborhood of $46,000 USD so $60,000 CDN, lets say my current gas fueled vehicle will trade in at $15,000, so a cost of $45,000, that if my current vehicle is still serviceable changes the "savings" a whole lot.

And we haven't even discussed taking a trip charging on the road, etc.

I guess the world won't be able to count on me to save it, I'll be driving my gas fueled vehicle for a while yet.
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foenix
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Electric vehicle shortage seen as gas prices drive demand in BC
High gas prices are driving British Columbians toward electric vehicles, but supply can’t match the demand, a report from BC Hydro says.

While 2021 was a record year for British Columbians turning to EVs, the pickup could have been higher if more had been available, a May 13 report from the utility said.

Manufacturers have faced supply chain issues as well as lithium battery and microchip shortages over the past couple of years. That has meant less production.

And while Manufacturers are still facing challenges, the report said, research points to supply chain shortages easing by 2023.

Research has found 34 per cent of British Columbians who are interested in buying a vehicle are hesitant to buy an EV because of lack of availability.

That lack of availability has, in part been COVID-19-driven, as the pandemic created global supply chain problems.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... -BC#368909
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by GordonH »

foenix wrote: May 13th, 2022, 10:48 am Electric vehicle shortage seen as gas prices drive demand in BC
High gas prices are driving British Columbians toward electric vehicles, but supply can’t match the demand, a report from BC Hydro says.

While 2021 was a record year for British Columbians turning to EVs, the pickup could have been higher if more had been available, a May 13 report from the utility said.

Manufacturers have faced supply chain issues as well as lithium battery and microchip shortages over the past couple of years. That has meant less production.

And while Manufacturers are still facing challenges, the report said, research points to supply chain shortages easing by 2023.

Research has found 34 per cent of British Columbians who are interested in buying a vehicle are hesitant to buy an EV because of lack of availability.

That lack of availability has, in part been COVID-19-driven, as the pandemic created global supply chain problems.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... -BC#368909
This is effecting the entire automotive industry not just EV’s.
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foenix
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by foenix »

GordonH wrote: May 13th, 2022, 10:52 am
foenix wrote: May 13th, 2022, 10:48 am Electric vehicle shortage seen as gas prices drive demand in BC



https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... -BC#368909
This is effecting the entire automotive industry not just EV’s.
No I'm sure higher gas prices will have the opposite effect for ICE and EVs
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captkirkcanada
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by captkirkcanada »

salton sea has enough lithium to supply all of north americas need and 40 percent of the worlds, and it is already a toxic disaster so go for broke :smt045


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captkirkcanada
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Re: Electric Vehicles

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Hey how are ya ?
youjustcomplain
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by youjustcomplain »

my5cents wrote: May 13th, 2022, 10:36 am I'm new to this topic, read some but I'm not prepared to read 82 pages to get fully up to speed so I apologies if some of what I say is repetitious.
Didn't want to quote your entire wall of text, but I read it, and it mirrors my opinion quite nicely.

The technology and price of a new EV just aren't there yet. It would take me 10+ years to break even at current fuel/electricity costs, which are both going up and the government will find a way to add a tax to EV's to support infrastructure. Don't know what that will look like yet, but I'm guessing that the 10+ year break even estimate is actually going to be worse than that.
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by LovemyBolt »

youjustcomplain wrote: May 19th, 2022, 9:33 am
Didn't want to quote your entire wall of text, but I read it, and it mirrors my opinion quite nicely.

The technology and price of a new EV just aren't there yet. It would take me 10+ years to break even at current fuel/electricity costs, which are both going up and the government will find a way to add a tax to EV's to support infrastructure. Don't know what that will look like yet, but I'm guessing that the 10+ year break even estimate is actually going to be worse than that.
Yes my back of the napkin analysis with what was then my current needs and car came to about 9 years payback. It's the effect of the up front cost. You could pay a loan or lease to change those times. And there's a chance that you would change up your car sometime in the future anyway as well. Then my needs changed. But I was already into the EV.
But I simply love not buying gas all the time. That made it all worthwhile. Not always having that cash outlay. Then the minimal maintenance.
I agree about the price though. They need to come down much more for not-rich people to be able to get into an EV. I'm not talking all these luxo models. Not-rich people aren't buying luxo cars. But there are currently 2 models under $40kCDN MSRP. Take off the rebates and you're around $30k. Several more models in the mid $40's.
Charging at home is optional. Convenient. But optional. I don't charge at home. I do fine finding free charging here and there.

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