Electric Vehicles

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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Jlabute »

By denying scientific principles , one may maintain any paradox
LovemyBolt
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by LovemyBolt »

Jlabute wrote: Aug 12th, 2022, 11:23 am The story is in many different outlets. It is an obvious problem with a lot of easy to find information.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0920306453

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles ... evacuation

http://ieomsociety.org/proceedings/2021monterrey/20.pdf
Thanks for those.

Elsevier owns Science Direct. They are a problematic publisher.

The greentechmedia article also mentions that gas stations run dry let alone not have power. And proceeds to talk about how EV's can even be of assistance in power outages.

The last one:
Right off the top in the background text:
"Most electric vehicles have a range between 100-200 miles,"
This is false. Especially when one considers that most electric vehicles are Tesla's with their substantial market penetration. They have much more range than that.
The low number would be closer to a hybrid on just battery. But they have a gas engine too.

Then it goes on to say:
"California’s two main natural disasters are earthquakes and wildfires. Both are short-notice events that have the
potential to knock out the power grid with no warning, making it especially difficult, if not impossible, to charge a
Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV)."
Last time I checked, gas pumps need power too. No power, no gas.

It does continue on to say that wildfires are more so than earthquakes. But I think we all know about California and earthquakes.

And for evacuating in the first place, EV's charging at home would start them off at mostly full to get out. Then in any gridlock situation, an EV can sit for many hours using the AC or heat while it cycles as needed not usually needing to be using it's full power the whole time. An ICEV will run out of gas eventually but likely after an EV runs out of power.

The need for more chargers will always be a thing for the sake of queueing waiting times. Power will be needed just like with gas pumps.
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by GordonH »

^^^ worst case situation fuel tanks can be hand pumped.
You going to need a few trillion hamster wheels to generate enough electricity to charge a vehicle.
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LovemyBolt
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by LovemyBolt »

GordonH wrote: Aug 12th, 2022, 4:15 pm ^^^ worst case situation fuel tanks can be hand pumped.
You going to need a few trillion hamster wheels to generate enough electricity to charge a vehicle.
Do you really think a gas station, with gas on hand, after a power outage, and even in an emergency, would let people pump out gas from their tanks? Maybe if you showed up and brandished a gun. Otherwise, not a chance. They would have their own armed guards.
On your way out for the evacuation you can throw in a battery pack storage with 120V output of at least 1500W (kinda like a powerwall) and the car charger. It would be pre-charged for that first recharge. There's roughly 800 klicks ideally for my car before needing a proper charger. Then also throw in a couple dozen solar panels to recharge the pack and then recharge the car. Some waiting required :)
I don't really know how all that works.
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by GordonH »

LovemyBolt wrote: Aug 12th, 2022, 7:22 pm
GordonH wrote: Aug 12th, 2022, 4:15 pm ^^^ worst case situation fuel tanks can be hand pumped.
You going to need a few trillion hamster wheels to generate enough electricity to charge a vehicle.
Do you really think a gas station, with gas on hand, after a power outage, and even in an emergency, would let people pump out gas from their tanks? Maybe if you showed up and brandished a gun. Otherwise, not a chance. They would have their own armed guards.
On your way out for the evacuation you can throw in a battery pack storage with 120V output of at least 1500W (kinda like a powerwall) and the car charger. It would be pre-charged for that first recharge. There's roughly 800 klicks ideally for my car before needing a proper charger. Then also throw in a couple dozen solar panels to recharge the pack and then recharge the car. Some waiting required :)
I don't really know how all that works.
We will have to wait for a major earthquake in California, to see what happens.
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JagXKR
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by JagXKR »

From one of my favorite songs

Here in this hopeless :cuss: hole we call L.A.
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away
Any :cuss: time, any :cuss: day
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay

......
One great big festering neon distraction
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied
Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim
'Cause Mom's gonna fix it all soon
Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be


As Maynard sings, I hope the cesspool of Cali goes right into the sea. [icon_lol2.gif] :up:
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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captkirkcanada
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by captkirkcanada »

Hey how are ya ?
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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Jlabute »

This was an interesting article. Spilling gasoline while fueling, is similar to electrical losses while charging, and can be up around 10% wasted.


https://notrickszone.com/2022/08/16/cha ... -are-huge/
By denying scientific principles , one may maintain any paradox
LovemyBolt
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by LovemyBolt »

Jlabute wrote: Aug 19th, 2022, 9:11 am This was an interesting article. Spilling gasoline while fueling, is similar to electrical losses while charging, and can be up around 10% wasted.
Um...
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/notrickszone/

This article however does agree that the EV itself will use some power to do its business while charging. Which I'll agree to as well. I would even venture to guess it would be more than spilling gas. I rarely ever used to spill gas while filling. But the EV definitely uses power while charging which will extend the charge time to reach the target charge.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a ... ng-losses/
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spooker
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by spooker »

Jlabute wrote: Aug 19th, 2022, 9:11 am This was an interesting article. Spilling gasoline while fueling, is similar to electrical losses while charging, and can be up around 10% wasted.


https://notrickszone.com/2022/08/16/cha ... -are-huge/
And that's why the holy grail of energy storage is still seen to be the mega-capacitor ... changing the state of energy always comes at a cost ... if we actually paid attention to all the wasted electricity we'd be gobsmacked ...
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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Jlabute »

Yup, we will see what the future holds.

Supercaps with better capacity than what we have today would be good, say 80kWh and up, with a good dielectric voltage, and certainly a fast charge time, but a certain degree of current leakage would still exist. Might be quite a wait, but it would probably be good. Previous attempts using graphene I don't think worked out well. (the Italian Grabat battery). I'm not sure what all the technical challenges and trade-off are. Like batteries, they have a low energy density so far.
By denying scientific principles , one may maintain any paradox
LovemyBolt
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by LovemyBolt »

Jlabute wrote: Aug 19th, 2022, 12:59 pm but a certain degree of current leakage would still exist.
I wouldn't call what I experience as current leakage. It's more like making use of battery power while the car is simultaneously charging. So consuming a little while charging. It's miniscule though in as far as actual kwh is concerned. Paying for time on the other hand....
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Jlabute
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Jlabute »

^^^ Just saying that if there is a switch to super capacitors, all capacitors have a leakage current in a quiescent state, even when not charging.
By denying scientific principles , one may maintain any paradox
LovemyBolt
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by LovemyBolt »

Jlabute wrote: Aug 19th, 2022, 1:41 pm ^^^ Just saying that if there is a switch to super capacitors, all capacitors have a leakage current in a quiescent state, even when not charging.
Oh sorry. A little too technical for me.
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Catsumi
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Catsumi »

Sort of like…when yourselves are at rest, you still leak water vapour! Right?
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