Electric Vehicles

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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Sep 30th, 2020, 12:40 pm

this is from the link i posted

"the battery charges faster and with less effort, and you do not need to cool it because you do not have a lot of heat anymore. Even better, you also will be able to discharge the battery faster, which means that you have more energy available in a shorter time frame."

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7'
Batteries For Dummies Like Me: Tesla’s Tabless Battery & Why It Matters
September 28th, 2020 by Alex Voigt

What the heck is a tabless battery, and why is that important?

This is the first article of a series to try to explain the complex technical new battery technology Tesla presented at Battery Day in simple words that a 10 years old can understand.



A better description of tabless batteries is multi-tab batteries, because the new Tesla battery technology has many tabs, not none. It may look at first glance like it has no tab at top, but the folded pins on top that you see are one tab each. I count many. And below the folded ones on top maybe even more — we cannot see. Each tab has the same function, and that function is best explained with the following scenario.

Imagine you are in a stadium or arena and you watch your favorite club, player, or band perform. Everybody is in good mood and energized. The stadium is fully packed up to the last seat. After the event is over, all are heading to the one exit available at the same time. People are jamming, queuing, and waiting to get out. More and more people arrive who had come a long way from the opposite side of the stadium and are also trying to somehow get through the masses — because they want to leave, and they want to now. But the exit is just too small for all of them. The atmosphere is getting aggressive and heats up. Security is around trying to prevent injuries and turmoil, hoping to get the situation under control. Security is delivering water to the crowd to cool everybody down.


The same is happening in a traditional battery where the one tab is the one exit in a stadium. The people in the arena are the electrons trying to get through the exit tab and bumping up against each other, queuing and jamming until they heat up. It takes a long time until the electrons from the opposite side of the battery make it to the tab, but it’s the only exit available, so they hurry, and by doing that heat up and jam up. Cooling is required to make them slow down and make them leave in an orderly way. Heat makes the structure expand, and that can cause damage if it happens too fast, and it’s also a waste of valuable energy. You have certainly touched a hot/warm battery before — that heat is lost energy you cannot use any more for whatever appliance you intended to use the battery.

Now, imagine you have a stadium with a huge amount of exits equally spread around the stadium and every person who watched the game has only a short distance and stress-less exit because fewer people are trying to leave per exit at one time. More make it out quickly and while keeping their cool. You don’t have a huge crowd of people jamming up and waiting to get through. Instead, everybody feels it is moving fast and sense the progress. People are relaxed and exit without stress, anger, or heat in an orderly manner. You do not need to invest in additional security, provide water, or take other measures to cool the crowd.


The new stadium I’m talking about here is the new “tabless” battery from Tesla.

Electrons or people can easily get in and out, which means the battery can charge and discharge easily without heating up, getting stressed, or waiting a long time. In other words, the battery charges faster and with less effort, and you do not need to cool it because you do not have a lot of heat anymore. Even better, you also will be able to discharge the battery faster, which means that you have more energy available in a shorter time frame.



"For a battery electric vehicle, this means much faster charging times and better performance (since energy can be more quickly discharged than before). Because it means less stress for the battery and it expands less, the battery will last longer, with more possible charge and discharge cycles in its lifetime. It will be more efficient because you do not lose much energy through heat anymore and that energy is now available for driving. You save the energy you spent on cooling too, and that energy is available for driving as well."

Unless someone has peer reviewed science it does not work like that then it is just a uninformed opinion .
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby Jlabute » Sep 30th, 2020, 1:33 pm

Maybe you could present some peer-reviewed science it works? There is no science mentioned in your article. None.

Batteries will NOT charge any faster. If for example you have a 50KW charger and a 50kWH battery... it takes one hour to charge it. If you have a new 100kWH battery, and a 200KW charger... it still takes you 30 minutes to charge... although it actually takes longer according to complaints since charging lithium batteries is not linear. If all of a sudden you develop a new 200kWH battery and have the same 200kW charger, it now takes an hour to charge again. If filling a hydrogen tank only takes 4 minutes... you're up and running much more quickly.
Galileo - "Measure what can be measured, and make measurable what cannot be measured."

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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby TylerM4 » Sep 30th, 2020, 4:35 pm

Jlabute is spot on. You can really tell who understands batteries and battery technology and who's just swallowing the marketing material.

Please - take if from 2 people who have at least a small understanding of the science here. This is a minor design change that will reap minor benefits - that's all. Charging and discharging batteries still creates heat - that heat still needs to be controlled and dealt with or you have a battery pack meltdown. Those are facts and cannot be disputed.

Tesla didn't make a big technology leap here or change the physics of batteries - they simply made a small design improvement.

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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 1st, 2020, 1:33 am

Police dept says tesla 3 saved them $6700.00 for a year in maintaining and fuel costs .

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... e-savings/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby Jlabute » Oct 1st, 2020, 8:29 am

Of course the Indiana Police highlight an important point, immediate electric costs are less than gasoline. This is a selling feature of course.

In this comparison, we don't know if it is apples to apples or how it was cherry picked. You have a NEW Model 3 Tesla, and a Dodge that all of a sudden needed $1935 repairs, and oil almost every month. Sounded like they were comparing a very old gas vehicle to a new Tesla. The Tesla had no maintenance at all. They didn't rotate the tires or check the brakes or anything. Sounds dangerous to me, or a lie. The Model 3 is also much more expensive with the smaller range and that makes the vehicle functionally different and less useful, so you might need more of them in addition to super-charging stations.

Another thing the article does not say, is that Indiana uses coal and gas to generate electricity, so the Tesla isn't any cleaner. Also, the Police pay more money per EV and charging stations... and that makes most of the fuel difference until one day, the Tesla battery dies, of you need repairs.

We all heard this story, Tesla police car runs out of power during a chase. This is a MODEL S with a much larger battery.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tesla-police-car-nearly-runs-out-power-during-chase-california-n1058881

In case of minor damage, Tesla vehicles are more costly to repair. This car shows what $36,000 in damage looks like.
https://www.tflcar.com/2019/06/tesla-model-3-repair-story/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby TylerM4 » Oct 1st, 2020, 8:32 am

Notice that those selling/marketing EV's and those really keen on EV's talk about "Cost of maintenance" vs "Total cost of ownership"? There's a reason

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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 1st, 2020, 9:20 am

A look at police and military using ev motorcycles


https://electrek.co/2020/09/30/heres-a- ... torcycles/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 1st, 2020, 10:58 am

Tesla expects 500,000 deliveries for year 2020 with just under 98,000 for 3rd qt.


https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/09/ ... heres-wha/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 1st, 2020, 12:08 pm

Lucid air ev peels the ribber from the tires at Laguna Seca gunning for Teslas time .

https://www.motortrend.com/news/lucid-a ... ime-video/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 2nd, 2020, 11:33 am

"The 4680 is a new type of cylindrical cells, currently under development by Tesla. It will store five times more energy, should allow to increase range by 16% (so we expect a corresponding energy density/lower losses) and offer up to six times the power output. The power output and the limited overheating are one of the key factors for the high-performance Plaid car."

https://insideevs.com/news/446980/tesla ... l-battery/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 2nd, 2020, 12:11 pm

Okanagan going to receive e-busses made for cold climate .

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/312234 ... BC-climate
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 2nd, 2020, 12:38 pm

Norway sees ev's crack 60 percent of new car sales .

https://thedriven.io/2020/10/02/volkswa ... ev-market/
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby GordonH » Oct 2nd, 2020, 12:51 pm

indianlarry66 wrote:Norway sees ev's crack 60 percent of new car sales .

https://thedriven.io/2020/10/02/volkswa ... ev-market/


Gasoline per/L in Norway according to this site https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Norw ... ne_prices/

$2.169 per/L CDN
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby OKkayak » Oct 3rd, 2020, 1:55 am

indianlarry66 wrote:Norway sees ev's crack 60 percent of new car sales .

https://thedriven.io/2020/10/02/volkswa ... ev-market/

Its not like Norwegians are buying them by choice, the Government has taxed non BEV cars so high that very few people can afford them and now they're stuck with sub-par performance cars or no car at all.
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Postby cyruslosco66 » Oct 3rd, 2020, 7:26 am

Testing finished on fastest electric plane .

https://insideevs.com/news/446842/rolls ... e-testing/
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