Electric Vehicles

[foenix]

Me too. Been thinking about picking up a Mazda Miata. Something sporty and fun that runs on gas and allows the top to come off for summer adventures. Appears as though I should wait for Al-Ion batteries so, that'll be a while probably before EVs are for me. I'm not in to immature, overly-expensive tech. There are no rebates for a gas vehicle, but, I am not sucking tax money from the poor to buy one and I feel good about that. One day, the market will want EVs without huge incentives.


Perhaps wait until they are more reliable too.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... blem-areas


Either EV sales are crappy, or fuel cell vehicles did really well in 2021 kicking EV butt.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/toyota- ... rands-2021

I'm defiantly seeing a change in tone

[LovemyBolt]

Friends/neighbors with a new Tesla say they can refill enough in 15 or 20 mins to get back from Kelowna.

Those are in a whole other league with their proprietary superchargers and their price tag. I couldn't justify the cost. But my hats certainly off to the company and their buyers for disrupting the market so much that now everybody wants to make EV's. Come on...Chevrolet. Apple Pie and all that. Mainstream is here. But then these companies want to make all their money off expensive trucks and SUV's in EV format with their requisite price tag. Gag. So at the bottom of the market we have a handful of econoboxes that get the job done.
For obvious reasons, I think this is a great table (it's US-ian of course):
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/be ... 210918.png

[Jlabute]

Me too. Been thinking about picking up a Mazda Miata. Something sporty and fun that runs on gas and allows the top to come off for summer adventures. Appears as though I should wait for Al-Ion batteries so, that'll be a while probably before EVs are for me. I'm not in to immature, overly-expensive tech. There are no rebates for a gas vehicle, but, I am not sucking tax money from the poor to buy one and I feel good about that. One day, the market will want EVs without huge incentives.


Perhaps wait until they are more reliable too.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... blem-areas


Either EV sales are crappy, or fuel cell vehicles did really well in 2021 kicking EV butt.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/toyota- ... rands-2021

I'm defiantly seeing a change in tone

Definitely? Must be that time of the month, or something. :-)

You know, I like a Bolt more than I like a Tesla. Telsa is a battery company. They will soon be taken over by a wide range of cheaper vehicles. If anything, American motor companies know how to put vehicles together quickly. Unfortunately due to the Bolt and jumping in to immature battery tech, GM has lost $2 billion dollars in three battery recalls. The Bolt fires just scared the Kraft Diner out of everyone. So far 16 vehicles have caught fire while charging. Did you have your Bolt recalled? Otherwise, are you cautious when you park it?

I suppose if you're checking out vehicles at a dealership, don't show any on fire. Now, a Bolt with a Al-Ion battery would be amazing. Just give it about 5 or 10 more years.

https://insideevs.com/news/551768/anoth ... -maryland/

[LovemyBolt]

You know, I like a Bolt more than I like a Tesla. Telsa is a battery company. They will soon be taken over by a wide range of cheaper vehicles. If anything, American motor companies know how to put vehicles together quickly. Unfortunately due to the Bolt and jumping in to immature battery tech, GM has lost $2 billion dollars in three battery recalls. The Bolt fires just scared the Kraft Diner out of everyone. So far 16 vehicles have caught fire while charging. Did you have your Bolt recalled? Otherwise, are you cautious when you park it?

I suppose if you're checking out vehicles at a dealership, don't show any on fire. Now, a Bolt with a Al-Ion battery would be amazing. Just give it about 5 or 10 more years.

LG bore the brunt of those costs of the recall. Chevrolet bore the brunt of the stop sales and the market perception which of course costs them. There've only been maybe 100-odd thousand Bolt's sold world-wide (not sure of the exact number)

It was a manufacturing flaw/error at LG. One can have opinions on the different battery solutions currently in the market, of course. I would not opine that these batteries are "immature".

I got my replacement battery back in November. I was not cautious. I was aware. But not cautious. I don't need to charge to full all the time except when going further afield. Charging to full was one of the warnings. It wasn't required to put in the software to force that limit. I could do that myself. I don't generally let it draw down to a low state of charge anyway so that part of the warning wasn't very relevant either. These things were not a hardship. If I needed full then I jolly well filled it. (funny how we still use tank capacity terminology) I got a little more range with the new battery too.

The oil-industry-advertiser driven media made hay with those few fires. The Kona also had some fires (more in fact, pretty much the same battery as the Bolt) and a battery recall. Tesla's have also had fires. They reduced the charging limits because of them. How would you like paying all that money only to have it crippled for what you paid for?

And then of course...how many freaking gas cars explode every day? Per capita. MANY more. This was made out to be way more than it needed to be. Run for the hills, a handful of cars caught fire. meh another burned out gas car. Nothing to see, move along. That's how it was driven.

[I Think]

I run my lithium batteries in my tractor between 80 & 50% still gives me a range of around 18 kilometers and should help the batts last for thousands of charge cycles.

[GordonH]

Okay once all these EV owners put into their home a charging unit, how much is it going cost to upgrade neighbourhood grids to handle increase consumption.

[LovemyBolt]

Okay once all these EV owners put into their home a charging unit, how much is it going cost to upgrade neighbourhood grids to handle increase consumption.

Well...they will "all" be consuming more power therefore paying more therefore that revenue will pay for any upgrades. Just as it happens with any new developments. The expectation of revenue drives the expansion. Isn't that how it has always worked. Those that don't have EV's would not be paying more due to not drawing power for charging. It's about the consumption. You consume more, you pay more.
The amount of power is basically like leaving your oven on with the door open the entire time you're charging. Then it stops charging and does some short trickle charges for as long as it's plugged in. How often you charge varies on your vehicle usage.

[GordonH]

Okay once all these EV owners put into their home a charging unit, how much is it going cost to upgrade neighbourhood grids to handle increase consumption.

Well...they will "all" be consuming more power therefore paying more therefore that revenue will pay for any upgrades. Just as it happens with any new developments. The expectation of revenue drives the expansion. Isn't that how it has always worked. Those that don't have EV's would not be paying more due to not drawing power for charging. It's about the consumption. You consume more, you pay more.
The amount of power is basically like leaving your oven on with the door open the entire time you're charging. Then it stops charging and does some short trickle charges for as long as it's plugged in. How often you charge varies on your vehicle usage.

This could add to one hell of a lot of upgraded transformers. Better idea is to go with fuel cell vehicles.

[LovemyBolt]

This could add to one hell of a lot of upgraded transformers. Better idea is to go with fuel cell vehicles.

We have an electrical infrastructure. We don't have hydrogen infrastructure. I think I found all of 4 stations down at the coast. Yeah that's helpful. I found lots of fast chargers with my connector. Add that to the few other connectors and also the slower chargers.
A line from Wikipedia:
The hydrogen needed to move a FCV a kilometer costs approximately 8 times as much as the electricity needed to move a BEV the same distance.

[GordonH]

This could add to one hell of a lot of upgraded transformers. Better idea is to go with fuel cell vehicles.

We have an electrical infrastructure. We don't have hydrogen infrastructure. I think I found all of 4 stations down at the coast. Yeah that's helpful. I found lots of fast chargers with my connector. Add that to the few other connectors and also the slower chargers.
A line from Wikipedia:
The hydrogen needed to move a FCV a kilometer costs approximately 8 times as much as the electricity needed to move a BEV the same distance.

Hydrogen station is planed for Esso lot on corner of Harvey & Spall, building is already in place.

[Jlabute]

This could add to one hell of a lot of upgraded transformers. Better idea is to go with fuel cell vehicles.

We have an electrical infrastructure. We don't have hydrogen infrastructure. I think I found all of 4 stations down at the coast. Yeah that's helpful. I found lots of fast chargers with my connector. Add that to the few other connectors and also the slower chargers.
A line from Wikipedia:
The hydrogen needed to move a FCV a kilometer costs approximately 8 times as much as the electricity needed to move a BEV the same distance.

One doesn't need much hydrogen infrastructure. Four stations in Vancouver can accommodate many fuel cell vehicles because the refill time is quick. As far as electric infrastructure, a lot of the infrastructure will need replacing to accommodate 100% EV acceptance. Then replaced again to accommodate better batteries, etc. The only thing that would compete with Hydrogen in terms of needing few charge stations would be Al-Ion. That would be ideal. 20 MW chargers in Kelowna and that'd be all you'd need, rather than thousands of KW chargers everywhere. Trickle chargers at home would be purely optional. Certainly battery is more efficient, yet more wasteful in other aspects at this time.

Not that either one interests me.

[I Think]

Okay once all these EV owners put into their home a charging unit, how much is it going cost to upgrade neighbourhood grids to handle increase consumption.

Gordon, have given you the numbers in earlier posts;
If 80% of cars converted to EV overnight, grid metered electricity use would go up 10%.
Since that 80% could not possibly happen within the next 10 years we are looking at about a 1% increase per year.
BC Hydro has the power, enough to sell it to the US and Alberta, but they do not want to spend any money on upgrading the grid. BC Hydro is ripping you off with their lack of infrastructure improvements.

[LovemyBolt]

Hydrogen station is planed for Esso lot on corner of Harvey & Spall, building is already in place.

Great. One. In the interior. Please don't misinterpret my thoughts about FCV's. If they were as easy as charging (nowadays) and as easy as gas then it's a fine option to progress to. But we're not there. I was able to stop buying gas much sooner with BEV than FCV. Install hydrogen stations alongside the fast chargers that we have...then you'd have something.
I have no interest in being an early adopter with such minimal infrastructure. Electricity is everywhere.

[LovemyBolt]

One doesn't need much hydrogen infrastructure. Four stations in Vancouver can accommodate many fuel cell vehicles because the refill time is quick. As far as electric infrastructure, a lot of the infrastructure will need replacing to accommodate 100% EV acceptance. Then replaced again to accommodate better batteries, etc. The only thing that would compete with Hydrogen in terms of needing few charge stations would be Al-Ion. That would be ideal. 20 MW chargers in Kelowna and that'd be all you'd need, rather than thousands of KW chargers everywhere. Trickle chargers at home would be purely optional. Certainly battery is more efficient, yet more wasteful in other aspects at this time.

Not that either one interests me.

So you live in say Abbotsford and you work in say Langley. Are you going to haul all the way over to say Canada Way to fill? No. That's almost ridiculous for an early adopter. Let alone, you live and work in Williams Lake. fuggedaboudit.
We're a long way away from 100% adoption away from gas.

[GordonH]

Off topic
So another big draw on BC hydro is City of Vancouver encouraging residents to switch over to heat pumps.