Electric Vehicles

[Babba_not_Gump]

Off topic
So another big draw on BC hydro is City of Vancouver encouraging residents to switch over to heat pumps.

Well if they have electric heat, then heat pumps are the way to go. Energy Star rated, using far less electricity.
But if you're already on natural gas and have a furnace, don't waste your money.

[I Think]

For the people who worry about EV batteries and fire:

Hyundai and Kia are telling the owners of nearly 485,000 ICE gasoline vehicles in the U.S. to park them outdoors because they can catch fire even if the engines have been turned off.

[seewood]

Off topic
So another big draw on BC hydro is City of Vancouver encouraging residents to switch over to heat pumps.

I haven't heard the adverts that are on the TV mention how they would be installed in the tens of thousand condo dwellings. Seems they are pushing for the diminishing single family homes to switch to heat pumps..

A family member is involved in looking into getting the condo tower they live in " to EV ready" The switching gear, electrical boxes, cabling , drilling through concrete, more wiring, permits, inspections are going to be extraordinarily expensive he says.

I ask for what end?, Not many in the tower drive more than 10,000 kms a year, many are way less.

[LovemyBolt]

For the people who worry about EV batteries and fire:

Hyundai and Kia are telling the owners of nearly 485,000 ICE gasoline vehicles in the U.S. to park them outdoors because they can catch fire even if the engines have been turned off.

It's such a mixed up perception. Per capita (obviously by pure numbers many more gas cars have burned) far more gas cars have burned than EV's.

A family member is involved in looking into getting the condo tower they live in " to EV ready" The switching gear, electrical boxes, cabling , drilling through concrete, more wiring, permits, inspections are going to be extraordinarily expensive he says.

I ask for what end?, Not many in the tower drive more than 10,000 kms a year, many are way less.

I agree that retrofitting condos after the fact would be cost prohibitive depending on how many. I'm good with having them required in new builds again depending on how many. I think having several generally accessible stands would be sufficient. I don't think every parking spot needs a 240V outlet. Often there are 120V plugs for like vacuums or block heaters. And if they were connected to the unit billing/panel then I'd be fine with that.
My car takes about 48 hours from 0 to full on 120V. Obviously it's never at 0 and I don't generally need to fill it so it would be less time.

[Jlabute]

For the people who worry about EV batteries and fire:

Hyundai and Kia are telling the owners of nearly 485,000 ICE gasoline vehicles in the U.S. to park them outdoors because they can catch fire even if the engines have been turned off.

Oh my gosh, another electric problem. They just can't do anything with electricity. Hyundai and Kia will get it right at some point.

This time, the problem is contamination in the antilock brake control module that can cause an electrical short.

[Trīewth]

Okay once all these EV owners put into their home a charging unit, how much is it going cost to upgrade neighbourhood grids to handle increase consumption.

Well...they will "all" be consuming more power therefore paying more therefore that revenue will pay for any upgrades. Just as it happens with any new developments. The expectation of revenue drives the expansion. Isn't that how it has always worked. Those that don't have EV's would not be paying more due to not drawing power for charging. It's about the consumption. You consume more, you pay more.
The amount of power is basically like leaving your oven on with the door open the entire time you're charging. Then it stops charging and does some short trickle charges for as long as it's plugged in. How often you charge varies on your vehicle usage.

That's not the way it works. If a proliferation of EV chargers drives electric system upgrades, those costs are borne by all customers of the utility through increased rates whether they own an EV or not

[LovemyBolt]

That's not the way it works. If a proliferation of EV chargers drives electric system upgrades, those costs are borne by all customers of the utility through increased rates whether they own an EV or not

Fair enough. If that becomes much more than a barely noticeable addition to normal price increases spread out amongst the entire customer-base...meh.

[I Think]

That's not the way it works. If a proliferation of EV chargers drives electric system upgrades, those costs are borne by all customers of the utility through increased rates whether they own an EV or not

Fair enough. If that becomes much more than a barely noticeable addition to normal price increases spread out amongst the entire customer-base...meh.

Glad to see that the conversation has shifted from lack of power ( BC Hydro has lots), to the need to upgrade the grid.

[spooker]

Well...they will "all" be consuming more power therefore paying more therefore that revenue will pay for any upgrades. Just as it happens with any new developments. The expectation of revenue drives the expansion. Isn't that how it has always worked. Those that don't have EV's would not be paying more due to not drawing power for charging. It's about the consumption. You consume more, you pay more.
The amount of power is basically like leaving your oven on with the door open the entire time you're charging. Then it stops charging and does some short trickle charges for as long as it's plugged in. How often you charge varies on your vehicle usage.

That's not the way it works. If a proliferation of EV chargers drives electric system upgrades, those costs are borne by all customers of the utility through increased rates whether they own an EV or not

Fortis has a 45-year upgrade plan, if someone in a neighbourhood wants to get it upgraded early they will figure out the prorated cost to upgrade and then it's up the person who wants it done to get agreement from the other households on that piece of infrastructure ... if they can't get people to agree to the cost then it's an option for the initial person to shoulder the whole price of the upgrade or whichever combination ...

So the company won't allow an EV owner to "force" others into higher costs ...

[seewood]

Fortis has a 45-year upgrade plan, if someone in a neighbourhood wants to get it upgraded early they will figure out the prorated cost to upgrade and then it's up the person who wants it done to get agreement from the other households on that piece of infrastructure ... if they can't get people to agree to the cost then it's an option for the initial person to shoulder the whole price of the upgrade or whichever combination ...

Not in my case, twice. Industrial upgrade- I paid for 1/4 of the upgrade ( larger transformers) and if the other three on the transformer bank ever want to upgrade in the future, they will be charged 1/4 of the cost.
Residential, same thing but with three on the transformer so we paid 1/3 the cost. If either of the other two want to upgrade their service drop, they will be dinged at that time.

Who pays for the actual transmission line upgrade on a circuit( if required) is a mystery right now for me. I'd be thinking the utility will be covering the line upgrade initially, but the consumers will be saddled with higher rates.

[Jlabute]

Well, what-ever will be built in the future, it better need fewer or no rare earth metals. Biden's Interior Secretary killed the future of powerful motors and magnets (turbines, solar panels, batteries) because, mines are evil and dirty. If the USA wants to make anything, they need more. As we all have guessed, Biden is anti-progress in every aspect.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/biden ... tals-mine/

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-envi ... eelworkers

[seewood]

Another EV issue has cropped up : https://electrek.co/2022/02/07/tesla-su ... es-stolen/

Same in China :https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/01/27/t ... ing-cable/

Perhaps the cars have to pack a charging cable around now and plug in at the station??

[Trīewth]

That's not the way it works. If a proliferation of EV chargers drives electric system upgrades, those costs are borne by all customers of the utility through increased rates whether they own an EV or not

Fortis has a 45-year upgrade plan, if someone in a neighbourhood wants to get it upgraded early they will figure out the prorated cost to upgrade and then it's up the person who wants it done to get agreement from the other households on that piece of infrastructure ... if they can't get people to agree to the cost then it's an option for the initial person to shoulder the whole price of the upgrade or whichever combination ...

So the company won't allow an EV owner to "force" others into higher costs ...

We are not talking about an individual upgrade that forces an easily identifiable single project that can be charged to a single customer. We are talking about many small upgrades that in aggregate, drive system upgrades. These are treated the same way as system upgrades that are planned for to deal with normal load growth - everyone pays. If it were the case that the additional load could be accommodated by the existing system and with current generation then rates would go down. Unfortunately, the grid will be stressed and the additional load will require higher cost generation to be added. BC Hydro has excess generation at the moment, but in order to meet it's climate goals, including EV uptake, the province will need another 15 Site-C's by some estimates, more in others.

[spooker]

Fortis has a 45-year upgrade plan, if someone in a neighbourhood wants to get it upgraded early they will figure out the prorated cost to upgrade and then it's up the person who wants it done to get agreement from the other households on that piece of infrastructure ... if they can't get people to agree to the cost then it's an option for the initial person to shoulder the whole price of the upgrade or whichever combination ...

So the company won't allow an EV owner to "force" others into higher costs ...

We are not talking about an individual upgrade that forces an easily identifiable single project that can be charged to a single customer. We are talking about many small upgrades that in aggregate, drive system upgrades. These are treated the same way as system upgrades that are planned for to deal with normal load growth - everyone pays. If it were the case that the additional load could be accommodated by the existing system and with current generation then rates would go down. Unfortunately, the grid will be stressed and the additional load will require higher cost generation to be added. BC Hydro has excess generation at the moment, but in order to meet it's climate goals, including EV uptake, the province will need another 15 Site-C's by some estimates, more in others.

Link to the estimates? Would like to see their inputs ...

[captkirkcanada]

us army plans to go electric

https://www.eenews.net/articles/army-de ... emissions/

The United States Army released its climate strategy report today, outlining ambitious renewable energy and decarbonization goals for the service, including installing a microgrid at every Army base by 2035, fielding electric combat vehicles by 2050 and reaching net-zero emissions in all of the Army’s procurements by 2050.

“The Army will mitigate and adapt to climate change,” said Christine Wormuth, secretary of the Army, in the report. “We have a unique opportunity to improve our defense capabilities and become a more efficient force, while securing a better future.”

The Army is the first service to release a climate strategy, with similar plans expected later this year from the Air Force and Navy. The strategy is broken down into three lines of effort — installations, acquisitions and logistics, and training — with intermediate objectives on specific deadlines to build to the overarching effort of net-zero Army emissions by 2050.

“The intermediate objectives that they list for each of their lines of effort are great because they’re concrete, they’re measurable,” said Erin Sikorsky, director of the Center for Climate and Security.

On the installations side, the Army is undergoing an ambitious effort to install a microgrid at every one of the Army’s 130 installations around the globe by 2035. So far, 24 microgrids are planned to be built at Army bases through 2024.