Civilization may have ended the day the Younger Dryas started.

[77TA]

I've just started watching this series. Super interesting stuff and in agreement with many of my own theories of ancient lost civilization.

[77TA]

The sonar of the Bimini road almost looks like it could be a harbour. If a corresponding structure were to be found on Bimini Island or off to the west in the shallows...it could imply there could have been a bridge across the channel where the gulf stream passes, and those are the foundations or what's left of them.

Exactly what I thought Bimini Rd looked like it was for offloading ship cargo from a sheltered bay.

[Jlabute]

I watched the Ancient civilization series by Graham Hancock. Of course, he is not an archeologist and has put together his own theories with little to no scientific rigor.

I find his ideas interesting. The process of discovery is fun. Were there advanced civilizations during the last ice age and did a cataclysmic event wipe them out? How was their knowledge transported around the world after the fact.
His theories also have holes, and lack of evidence. Nonetheless, it starts one thinking about life during and ending at the last ice age. Having a grasp on what the world looked like at that time with 95% of Canada under 2Km of ice. What happened when it all melted? How pronounced and cataclysmic was the last big melt?

Wondering about places like Gunung Padang, if it was built on top of older and older civilizations or built ontop a volcanic neck, can give one a headache. It wouldn't have been the only inhabited place and pottery and other artifacts should be nearby, which was ignored in the docu-series. I am disappointed that Graham did not argue other theories or provide mainstream insights. Saying the site had inhabitants 9,000 to 20,000 years ago is quite a range and is disputed.

When it comes down to it, his theories are not thoroughly substantiated.

[rustled]

As he points out, though, we won't find out "what's there" if we're not actively looking. Plenty of hills were "just hills" until someone noticed something - and started digging to find out more.

The rigidity of current thought on several topics is perplexing, until we consider it was just as rigid in the past before major shifts in our common understanding.

[77TA]

I personally am dumbfounded that people in their respective fields can believe with utter certainty that they absolutely know what has transpired in the ancient past and/or the foreseeable future based on theories and have closed minds to alternate theories.

Anything that was not witnessed can not be certain.

[rustled]

I personally am dumbfounded that people in their respective fields can believe with utter certainty that they absolutely know what has transpired in the ancient past and/or the foreseeable future based on theories and have closed minds to alternate theories.

That seems the most perplexing aspect to Hancock, too. It seems to me he doesn't mind being proven wrong (and rather enjoys the notoriety he gets from rattling cages), he most minds the assumption there's nothing to learn by investigating.

Anything that was not witnessed can not be certain.

And even when we witness something, we only see it from a single perspective and with our current understanding. We can be certain of what we saw, not necessarily certain that's all there was to see.

[77TA]

And even when we witness something, we only see it from a single perspective and with our current understanding. We can be certain of what we saw, not necessarily certain that's all there was to see.

Very true and even more reason to be open to alternate interpretation of the mainsteam conceived journey of earth and humanity, past, present and future.

[rustled]

Interesting.

There's also the recently rediscovered city near Phnom Kulen, which may have been a template for Angkor Wat:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180958508/

[Jlabute]

As he points out, though, we won't find out "what's there" if we're not actively looking. Plenty of hills were "just hills" until someone noticed something - and started digging to find out more.

The rigidity of current thought on several topics is perplexing, until we consider it was just as rigid in the past before major shifts in our common understanding.

Certainly, I agree. We have to be actively looking, which archeologists are doing, are they not? Is there rigidity? Will we believe there is, according to one person who doesn’t do the leg work and is not an archeologist? He could perhaps sponsor some digs around Gunung Padang and try and find something more than 2000 years old. Saying that, the scientific process should be rigid.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/digging-fo ... 2qphb.html

I am all for proper discovery. Far be it that politics ever get involved, nor am I ready to believe that many professional archeologists, vulcanologists, etc, are colluding world-wide to hide a truth.

[rustled]

As he points out, though, we won't find out "what's there" if we're not actively looking. Plenty of hills were "just hills" until someone noticed something - and started digging to find out more.

The rigidity of current thought on several topics is perplexing, until we consider it was just as rigid in the past before major shifts in our common understanding.

Certainly, I agree. We have to be actively looking, which archeologists are doing, are they not? Is there rigidity? Will we believe there is, according to one person who doesn’t do the leg work and is not an archeologist? He could perhaps sponsor some digs around Gunung Padang and try and find something more than 2000 years old. Saying that, the scientific process should be rigid.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/digging-fo ... 2qphb.html

I am all for proper discovery. Far be it that politics ever get involved, nor am I ready to believe that many professional archeologists, vulcanologists, etc, are colluding world-wide to hide a truth.

I'd say "the scientific process should be rigorous" before "rigid", but maybe not once I'd thought it through.

Thanks for the link! Interesting stuff.

Hancock was talking about a different site when he said they weren't actively looking. And while I haven't heard him accusing professionals of colluding world-wide to hide a truth, I have heard him say the academic community is resistant to his theories. Even that I think he is likely overstating. Part of his "thing" seems to be enjoying his own notoriety. Unfortunately, it sells well in this day and age.

It's fascinating how a farmer discovers a hill is not merely a hill, etc. The only sure thing seems to be: The more we learn, the more we realize we have yet to learn.

[rustled]

Yup. Way more questions than answers!

[Jlabute]

A lot more foot-work to do.

The thing I wonder about is the presidential team of 'common workers' that are doing the foot-work. Indonesia's president could be looking for prestige and such a claim would bring it. It is possible the research team was not properly assigned.

The petitioners say this:

''This activity is carried out without scientific norms of conservation knowledge,'' the petitioners say. They believe the excavation threatens the preservation of the existing site, and hint strongly that archaeologists, as opposed to geologists, should be involved. One of them, volcanologist Sutikno Bronto, says Gunung Padang is simply the neck of a nearby volcano, not an ancient pyramid.

''Danny Hilman is not a vulcanologist. I am,'' he says. As for the carbon-dated cement between the stones, on which Hilman relies for his claims about the age of the site, Sutikno believes it is simply the byproduct of a natural weathering process, ''not man-made''.

Saying that, nothing in regards to culture has been discovered in the area is of the expected age. We will have to wait until excavations continue.

Another concern:

Desril Riva Shanti, the head of Bandung Archaeological center has expressed that the excavations at Mount Padang are not executed in a proper way. Some of the first few people who excavated the land were not archaeologists at all, rather Indonesian soldiers. The use of soldiers over archaeologists was in some ways an economic move by the government, however, the government has since realized this and halted excavations.