EV Battery Fires Not Really A Thing

[LovemyBolt]

What causes an ICEV fire? A fuel leak duh! ... What causes thermal runaway? Who knows! Is it preventable? No! I'll keep driving my ICEV until EV manufacturers reassure consumers that EV fires are a thing of the past.

Wire wears through from constant rubbing, shorts, heats, melts, ignites - fire. duh! Completely unpreventable. And how do you prevent a fuel leak? You're confusing cause with prevention.

[DANSPEED]

Wire wears through from constant rubbing, shorts, heats, melts, ignites - fire. duh! Completely unpreventable. And how do you prevent a fuel leak? You're confusing cause with prevention.

WRONG! Totally serviceable and totally avoidable with proper maintenance! ... thermal runaway totally unpredictable, not serviceable. Read my Honeywell quote a few posts back. I don't know anyone who's had an ICEV fire and I also don't know anyone who owns an EV.

Forbes, Electric Car Fire Risks Look Exaggerated, But More Data Required For Definitive Verdict

March 2, 2022

LMC Automotive analyst Oliver Petschenyk said it’s hard to say whether ICE cars or EVs are more or less prone to fires. With ICE vehicles, typical fire causes are brake fluid leaks igniting after exhaust contact, and electrical short circuits, which are usually design failures. Common EV failures include an internal cell short which could lead to thermal runaway.

“I believe the likelihood of a vehicle’s battery failing is becoming ever more less likely. However the number of EVs on the road is increasing possibly at a higher rate so I believe thermal events for the foreseeable future are still likely,” Petschenyk said.

[LovemyBolt]

WRONG! Totally serviceable and totally avoidable with proper maintenance! ... thermal runaway totally unpredictable, not serviceable. Read my Honeywell quote a few posts back. I don't know anyone who's had an ICEV fire and I also don't know anyone who owns an EV.

Forbes, Electric Car Fire Risks Look Exaggerated, But More Data Required For Definitive Verdict

March 2, 2022

LMC Automotive analyst Oliver Petschenyk said it’s hard to say whether ICE cars or EVs are more or less prone to fires. With ICE vehicles, typical fire causes are brake fluid leaks igniting after exhaust contact, and electrical short circuits, which are usually design failures. Common EV failures include an internal cell short which could lead to thermal runaway.

“I believe the likelihood of a vehicle’s battery failing is becoming ever more less likely. However the number of EVs on the road is increasing possibly at a higher rate so I believe thermal events for the foreseeable future are still likely,” Petschenyk said.

I don't think you're having a serious conversation. Nobody is going to inspect/replace every wiring harness to service and maintain against the possibility of a short, nor all loose wires. Heck, squirrels like eating wires. How do you service and maintain against them?
I don't know anybody that had a spontaneous ICEV fire either. That does not mean they don't happen. I don't know anybody that died from breast cancer either. That doesn't mean nobody does.
Get serious.

[spooker]

WRONG! Totally serviceable and totally avoidable with proper maintenance! ... thermal runaway totally unpredictable, not serviceable. Read my Honeywell quote a few posts back. I don't know anyone who's had an ICEV fire and I also don't know anyone who owns an EV.

So all of the ICE fires are caused by stupid owners? Versus a few EV fires caused by evolving technology? Sounds like the idiots need to look at their odds and choose to buy an EV, take a major factor of fire out of their lives ...

On one hand, there are EV fires caused by issues we are learning about all the time with this new technology that so many companies are trying to make better so as to have the vehicle that wins the race to everyone's driveway ... on the other hand we have ICE technology that has been understood for a century, engineers over decades have designed things to run as flawlessly as possible yet the end-users still seem to screw things up so much that the odds are 61 times higher to catch on fire ... are we worrying about the right thing?

[DANSPEED]

So all of the ICE fires are caused by stupid owners? Versus a few EV fires caused by evolving technology? Sounds like the idiots need to look at their odds and choose to buy an EV, take a major factor of fire out of their lives ...

On one hand, there are EV fires caused by issues we are learning about all the time with this new technology that so many companies are trying to make better so as to have the vehicle that wins the race to everyone's driveway ... on the other hand we have ICE technology that has been understood for a century, engineers over decades have designed things to run as flawlessly as possible yet the end-users still seem to screw things up so much that the odds are 61 times higher to catch on fire ... are we worrying about the right thing?

Exactly my point, ICEV fires human error, EV fires from battery thermal runaway, internal shorts unpredictable! As for squirrels, electrical shorts and even sabotage, I excluded those because they can affect both technologies equally. I like the concept of EVs but there's just not enough of them on the road yet to convince me battery fires are rare. Given the fact that Toyota is even thinking of designing a new battery technology that they say will be safer and less prone to fires has me believing EV fires aren't rare.

[hozzle]

So I know there will be a barrage of counters to this point, but can these articles lead to most thinking battery fires are a real thing? If so is the perception due to the batteries themselves and vehicles are lumped up into overall perception? Or is the spotlight on the issue due to the deaths involved with some electric bikes and the storage proximity to living spaces? ... (yes the numbers are presented and arguments discussed on both sides, but it is real, IMHO)

Car Fires:
"The NHTSA in 2021 opened a new Battery Safety Initiative investigation into ev car fires in light of the continuing numerous fire incidents."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_e ... _incidents

Electric scooters:
"From 2019 to 2022, there’s been a more than 1,000% increase in injuries from fires that started with an e-bike or e-scooter, and there’s been a more than 600% increase in the fires themselves.
Last year, six people died in fires started with lithium-ion batteries in New York City."
https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/public ... -happening

E-Bikes:
"Between 2015 and 2019, there have been over 330 fire-related incidents concerned"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromobility

[spooker]

So I know there will be a barrage of counters to this point, but can these articles lead to most thinking battery fires are a real thing? If so is the perception due to the batteries themselves and vehicles are lumped up into overall perception? Or is the spotlight on the issue due to the deaths involved with some electric bikes and the storage proximity to living spaces? ... (yes the numbers are presented and arguments discussed on both sides, but it is real, IMHO)

Similar to the point made in this article, EV car fires are distinct from scooters and e-bikes ...

However, Christensen said the electric car’s reputation was being tarnished by their lithium ion cousins. He has real concerns with electric scooters and bikes that use similar technology but often from unregulated, inexperienced manufacturers, or even DIY jobs using internet-sourced parts. (He advises people never to leave scooters charging indoors or unattended.)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-vehicles

I'm starting to think I needed to narrow this topic title as they have been lumped together even though my first post was clearly about cars ...

[DANSPEED]

Similar to the point made in this article, EV car fires are distinct from scooters and e-bikes ...

However, Christensen said the electric car’s reputation was being tarnished by their lithium ion cousins. He has real concerns with electric scooters and bikes that use similar technology but often from unregulated, inexperienced manufacturers, or even DIY jobs using internet-sourced parts. (He advises people never to leave scooters charging indoors or unattended.)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-vehicles

I'm starting to think I needed to narrow this topic title as they have been lumped together even though my first post was clearly about cars ...

That was my point that the term "Li-ion battery" could become synonymous with the word "fire." EVs are distinct from scooters and e-bikes but they share the same power source technology. According to wiki the problem of lithium-ion battery safety was known before 1991 ...

Wiki, Lithium-ion battery, Safety

The problem of lithium-ion battery safety has been recognized even before these batteries were first commercially released in 1991. The two main reasons for lithium-ion battery fires and explosions are related to processes on the negative electrode (cathode). During a normal battery charge lithium ions intercalate into graphite. However, if the charge is forced to go too fast (or at a too low temperature) lithium metal starts plating on the anode, and the resulting dendrites can penetrate the battery separator, internally short-circuit the cell, resulting in high electric current, heating and ignition.

It goes on to say the problem has been addressed...

Nowadays, all reputable manufacturers employ at least two safety devices in all their lithium-ion batteries of an 18650 format or larger: a current interrupt (CID) device and a positive temperature coefficient (PTC) device.

Did anyone catch that word "reputable" above? It almost implies that not all battery manufacturers incorporate these safety features into their lithium-ion batteries. This could be a huge issue when EV owners look at aftermarket or refurbished batteries to avoid paying for expensive OEM batteries assuming there still available after the warranty expires. So we could be seeing more and more EV fires as a result of cheaper replacement batteries. I don't know, time will tell.

[nepal]

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Apparently EV car fires are no more frequent than ICE, but not sure what will happen as they age. Hopefully EV batteries are no less safe than ICE, but the link to article here says, quickly get out and away if EV fire occurs. Perhaps there’s a high-voltage danger to rescuers trying to rescue someone trapped in a damaged EV.

https://www.fireextinguisheronline.com. ... -australia
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[hozzle]

The report speaks for itself... EV Fires are a thing.

[Jlabute]

All sorts of issues are recently in the news. $60,000 battery replacements which make no sense to ever purchase if they are valued more than the vehicle, neither is it good for the economy or the environment to have disposable vehicles. Exploding batteries. Mini-mobility and EV fires. Vehicle failure in general. I would wait for the next government to come in before buying a new vehicle.

[nepal]

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Fire blanket, to extinguish EV fires, rather than water.
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https://youtu.be/itGeAq9rBeY?si=KmnMdxcrsXU7UCO5

[seewood]

Fire blanket, to extinguish EV fires, rather than water.

I've seen similar on airplanes where they have a fire resistant/proof envelopes to put burning/too hot laptops or phones in.

I have responded to numerous ICE vehicle fires during my POC fire guy history. I cannot remember any that just spontaneously combusted similar to what EV's do in a carport. VW busses burned up overheating, stolen cars were intentionally set, a few backfires that got the hood lining burning, oil on the exhaust manifold...

[LovemyBolt]

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Fire blanket, to extinguish EV fires, rather than water.
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Great. Naysayers squawk about so much water. There we go. That complaint is negated.

seewood: All hands-off, non-intentional fires are spontaneous combustion. Many more of those with ICEV's than EV's.

[hozzle]

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Fire blanket, to extinguish EV fires, rather than water.
.

Great. Naysayers squawk about so much water. There we go. That complaint is negated.

seewood: All hands-off, non-intentional fires are spontaneous combustion. Many more of those with ICEV's than EV's.

Perhaps the "naysayers" were listened too and the blankets were issued
Also if you watch the vid... the protocol and manpower for that EV fire in the vid is more extensive than with an ICEV... as shown in the vid.

... and the recently published vid provides the incident date... "At 7:40 a.m. on Wednesday, January 10, 2024, residents inside a home on S. Mobile St. in Centennial heard their smoke alarms activate and found their house"
... this indicates to me that EV Battery Fires are really a thing.... just sayin.