Furnace vs cold weather

[TylerM4]

Which thermostat do you use? I would guess it is relatively smart. I wonder if deltas or hysteresis settings are common-place. The model under mine at 60K BTU sounded a tad low. I had to go higher too. lol. Feelings always in control.

It's nothing fancy but it is a Honeywell. It's advertised as "smart" since it records how long it takes to increase/lower temp and will start/stop the furnace ahead of my set times such that the desired temp is achieved at the set time. But it's nothing fancy to look at and certainly not connected to WiFi or anything like that.

[Urban Cowboy]

In a cold snap like this I'd have to use the fireplace as well.

Well thank goodness you have a fireplace. I wish I had one.

It's nice to have a backup heat source for sure, especially in case the power goes out since we have no gas here.
Always have two or three cords of wood on hand in case it's needed.

[DANSPEED]

Well, I respectfully disagree with him. The math/physics doesn't lie, it's less total energy if you lower the thermostat overnight. The only way what he states could be true is if there was some reason why short cycling your furnace was MORE efficient. BUT, the opposite is actually true - short cycling hurts efficiency.

What I find with HVAC guys is that most understand how to install a furnace, how it works, etc. But some don't have a strong grasp of the science behind the scenes and end up parroting back what they've heard from others vs understanding themselves. You'll find that those who sell natural gas and those who advocate for energy efficient homes all recommend to turn down the temp at night and while you're not at home.

I'll bet if you asked him "Why does it take more energy?" he wouldn't be able to give you a good answer ;)

My guess he'll say efficiency. They seem to throw that word around a lot!

Call me crazy but I don't mind it 32C in the house in the summer, so I figure for what I save in energy between May and September on cooling turns into free energy for heating in the winter months. Although right now -6C outside feels much colder than -26C did!

[DANSPEED]

Actually in the process of getting a new heat pump installed here, and it will require upgrading the furnace. I know what you mean about the older units being noisy.

The newer one is designed differently and will hopefully be quieter. It's a double stack and side vented, which I'd say is wiser than top vented which means rain, snow, and whatnot fall right into it.

Is yours the new generation? Friend of mine paid $30K for his new heat pump. I hope he sees a return on his investment someday.

[Glacier]

Although right now -6C outside feels much colder than -26C did!

You're either in Pemberton, Kitimat, or Hope Slide (Sunshine Valley)...

currenttepsxxx.png

[DANSPEED]

Although right now -6C outside feels much colder than -26C did!

You're either in Pemberton, Kitimat, or Hope Slide (Sunshine Valley)...
currenttepsxxx.png

No I'm in Kelowna. This F'n Ecobee thing says it's -6C outside right now! Oh wait, Weather Canada says -8C so I'll take that negative remark I said back about this Ecobee thing.

[Urban Cowboy]

Actually in the process of getting a new heat pump installed here, and it will require upgrading the furnace. I know what you mean about the older units being noisy.

The newer one is designed differently and will hopefully be quieter. It's a double stack and side vented, which I'd say is wiser than top vented which means rain, snow, and whatnot fall right into it.

Is yours the new generation? Friend of mine paid $30K for his new heat pump. I hope he sees a return on his investment someday.

I believe it has to be in order to qualify for grants.

Currently waiting for a home assessment to be done as part of the process.

[Jlabute]

You're either in Pemberton, Kitimat, or Hope Slide (Sunshine Valley)...

No I'm in Kelowna. This F'n Ecobee thing says it's -6C outside right now! Oh wait, Weather Canada says -8C so I'll take that negative remark I said back about this Ecobee thing.

Yup. MSN weather says it is -6C. The airport says -8C. I wonder what station MSN is using. -6C is closer to the lake. The Weather Network says -7C. A man with three thermometers never knows the temperature. lol.


https://metar-taf.com/country/canada

[Bigbacardi]

Comfort & efficiency are 2 separate issues.
Most people like a little cooler at nite for sleep. Comfort.

Efficiency- the most efficient system is one that runs 24 hrs a day, just adding what is needed. Not really gonna happen.

Imagine, driving from Vancouver to Calgary, in your car.
Accelerate to 100kmh, then coast to 50kmh, continually from start to finish.
VS
Maintain constant steady speed from start to finish. No slowing for lights/traffic....

Who gets better fuel mileage?
2nd option does.
Who gets more comfort?
1st option. Cause they slowed for stop signs/traffic(less stress)

Anything more than a 3f drop is for comfort, not efficiency.
Smart thermostats are stoopid.
Previous poster brought up how many installers just parrot what they hear....100% true.
I found a vast majority of hvac mechanics are glorified parts changers, not true mechanics....
Most installers do not know the inner workings of said HVAC systems.

[DANSPEED]

The guy who sold me the Carrier said he started out in the 70's repairing my old Olsen so I thought if anyone knows about efficiency it must be this guy. He looked right at me and said, "Your going to really save on your heating bills." ... I'm thinking about taking him to small claims court for $5K. I paid $6,300, so minus the $1K rebate from FortisBS I'm only out $300. The way it's going now I'll never see a return on my investment.

[Glacier]

Repairing furnaces for 50 years doesn't mean you know one Hoot about how efficient they are!

[DANSPEED]

Repairing furnaces for 50 years doesn't mean you know one Hoot about how efficient they are!

True, but their knowledge and experience in the field and also their years of being in the business should make the difference from them being a fly-by-night installer to being a reputable company that customers can trust. At least you'd think so!

[Bigbacardi]

Hang on a second before throwing that old guy under the bus.....
Standing pilot Olsen was about 60%
New stuff is minimum 95%
So the new furnace uses approx 35% less fuel to generate the equal amount of heat.
This is physics.
Now your gas bill, well that's different.
Break down the bill.....
Storage fee
Line fee
Delivery charge
Oh yah also the actual stuff used
Also keep in mind the skyrocketing nat gas charges over the last 10 yrs.

Now that's different than lowering your bill 35%.
But I digress, as far as reliability goes.....Olsen wins big
New stuff is super expensive, hi maintenance as well.

[TylerM4]

Comfort & efficiency are 2 separate issues.
Most people like a little cooler at nite for sleep. Comfort.

Efficiency- the most efficient system is one that runs 24 hrs a day, just adding what is needed. Not really gonna happen.

Imagine, driving from Vancouver to Calgary, in your car.
Accelerate to 100kmh, then coast to 50kmh, continually from start to finish.
VS
Maintain constant steady speed from start to finish. No slowing for lights/traffic....

Who gets better fuel mileage?
2nd option does.
Who gets more comfort?
1st option. Cause they slowed for stop signs/traffic(less stress)

Anything more than a 3f drop is for comfort, not efficiency.
Smart thermostats are stoopid.
Previous poster brought up how many installers just parrot what they hear....100% true.
I found a vast majority of hvac mechanics are glorified parts changers, not true mechanics....
Most installers do not know the inner workings of said HVAC systems.

Neat analogy, but lowering the temp overnight isn't the same as constantly up and down. It's more like - drive at 100km/hr for 16hrs of the day, then drive at 50km/hr for 8hrs of the day. Your analogy works well for describing why short cycling is inefficient tho.

[Bsuds]

Smart thermostats are stoopid.

The thermostats are smart, it's the people using them improperly who are stoopid.