Furnace vs cold weather

[DANSPEED]

Hang on a second before throwing that old guy under the bus.....
Standing pilot Olsen was about 60%
New stuff is minimum 95%
So the new furnace uses approx 35% less fuel to generate the equal amount of heat.
This is physics.
Now your gas bill, well that's different.
Break down the bill.....
Storage fee
Line fee
Delivery charge
Oh yah also the actual stuff used
Also keep in mind the skyrocketing nat gas charges over the last 10 yrs.

Now that's different than lowering your bill 35%.
But I digress, as far as reliability goes.....Olsen wins big
New stuff is super expensive, hi maintenance as well.

That's what the sales guy told me too. He said the new Carrier is 97% efficient, so for every dollar of gas I burn I'm only wasting 3 cents. He then told me my 47 year old Olsen was 60% at best. So with the new furnace my gas usage should drop by 37% right? Nope, about the same. I'm thinking now his sale pitch was just smoke and mirrors.

I always knew when the old Olsen was on because the gas moving through the pipe in the garage sounded like a river flowing. With the new Carrier I can't hear any gas flow even with my ear pressed against the pipe.

I've lost count how many service techs over the years have told me my Olsen was the worst furnace ever made for efficiency. After awhile you start thinking maybe I should get a new furnace.

[DANSPEED]

Smart thermostats are stoopid.

The thermostats are smart, it's the people using them improperly who are stoopid.

So Ecobee starting on stage 1 when it's -26C outside and running for a set time then switching to stage 2 because stage 1 isn't heating the house is smart? Even Ecobee had no solution apart from disabling stage 1 when I asked them. A smart thermostat should know the outside temperature to calculate a heat loss number to use in it's stage 1 to stage 2 auto mode switching algorithm. When I asked Ecobee what stage 1 auto mode did they had no clue. So even at -200C outside Ecobee would still start on stage 1. This Ecobee thing is about as smart as a bag of rocks!

[Bsuds]

The thermostats are smart, it's the people using them improperly who are stoopid.

So Ecobee starting on stage 1 when it's -26C outside and running for a set time then switching to stage 2 because stage 1 isn't heating the house is smart? Even Ecobee had no solution apart from disabling stage 1 when I asked them. A smart thermostat should know the outside temperature to calculate a heat loss number to use in it's stage 1 to stage 2 auto mode switching algorithm. When I asked Ecobee what stage 1 auto mode did they had no clue. So even at -200C outside Ecobee would still start on stage 1. This Ecobee thing is about as smart as a bag of rocks!

I guess you picked a poorly designed thermostat.

I have had no issues with my Honeywell smart thermostat.

[Glacier]

I have had no issues with my Honeywell smart thermostat.

Those are good, and much cheaper than the ECOBEE and Nest. It's ironic that the cheaper smart thermostat is the best one.

[Jlabute]

So Ecobee starting on stage 1 when it's -26C outside and running for a set time then switching to stage 2 because stage 1 isn't heating the house is smart? Even Ecobee had no solution apart from disabling stage 1 when I asked them. A smart thermostat should know the outside temperature to calculate a heat loss number to use in it's stage 1 to stage 2 auto mode switching algorithm. When I asked Ecobee what stage 1 auto mode did they had no clue. So even at -200C outside Ecobee would still start on stage 1. This Ecobee thing is about as smart as a bag of rocks!

I would guess you're cycling fairly quickly with 0.5C hysteresis. (??)

So when heating turns on, the fan purges for 'x' amount of time, then stage 1 heating comes on because you only have to heat up by a degree or so. Stage 1 heating is more efficient and comfortable. The Ecobee monitors the rate of change in the indoor temperature and decides if it needs stage 2. If the temperature differential is greater before a call to heating, it may start with Stage 2. These are all configurable in settings.

I am not sure what logic or learning the Ecobee uses. Mine seems to keep the home cozy and quiet.

[DANSPEED]

I would guess you're cycling fairly quickly with 0.5C hysteresis. (??)

So when heating turns on, the fan purges for 'x' amount of time, then stage 1 heating comes on because you only have to heat up by a degree or so. Stage 1 heating is more efficient and comfortable. The Ecobee monitors the rate of change in the indoor temperature and decides if it needs stage 2. If the temperature differential is greater before a call to heating, it may start with Stage 2. These are all configurable in settings.

I am not sure what logic or learning the Ecobee uses. Mine seems to keep the home cozy and quiet.

Heat differential is set at 0.6C. As for stage 1 runtime it's Auto or 10+ minutes before switching to stage 2. Auto's interesting because neither the installer or Ecobee has a clue what it does. You'd think it was a learning mode but Ecobee told me they don't factor in the outside temperature from the internet into the algorithm. Without that value I don't see how Ecobee determines when or if stage 1 should start and for how long it should run before switching to stage 2. I agree with you about stage 1 and efficiency for small differentials but at greater heat loss (lower outside temperatures) it becomes pointless to start on stage 1. I've never seen Ecobee start my furnace yet on stage 2, even at -28C outside.

[eltron]

Something else I found puzzling. My roof always starts melting around the same time as my neighbors. Now with the new furnace my roof starts to melt almost two weeks earlier! The installer said I don't have enough insulation. BS!

Well, I think this about sums it up. Your new furnace is putting more heat into your house than your old one and is leaking through your roof. Air is pulled in under where your house attached to the ground and ends up usually leaving through the roof (if your doors and windows aren't crap). In older houses it's recommended to have around 6"-14" of a spray insulation on top. It might be worthwhile to get a home efficiency test, where they test your house for leaks and issues and can make some recommendations.

However, usually a home efficiency test happens before and after you upgrade your HVAC systems. This is what's required to get any sort of rebates or grants for upgrading to a heatpump system.

[DANSPEED]

Something else I found puzzling. My roof always starts melting around the same time as my neighbors. Now with the new furnace my roof starts to melt almost two weeks earlier! The installer said I don't have enough insulation. BS!

Well, I think this about sums it up. Your new furnace is putting more heat into your house than your old one and is leaking through your roof. Air is pulled in under where your house attached to the ground and ends up usually leaving through the roof (if your doors and windows aren't crap). In older houses it's recommended to have around 6"-14" of a spray insulation on top. It might be worthwhile to get a home efficiency test, where they test your house for leaks and issues and can make some recommendations.

However, usually a home efficiency test happens before and after you upgrade your HVAC systems. This is what's required to get any sort of rebates or grants for upgrading to a heatpump system.

Oh I've got insulation, 30 years ago I had 14" or more blown in. My old Olsen put out way more heat into the house but the snow never melted off the roof fast. My new furnace puts out what I'd describe as "lukewarm" air. My theory about the roof melting is that stage 1 heat is just escaping through the roof as the temperature drops and only stage 2 is heating my home.

[Glacier]

Does anyone know why my furnace room has a 6 inch air duct through the wall? It's an empty metal pipe. Is this because a furnace room needs some sort of ventilation? My house was built 30 years ago. It sure brings in a lot of cold air this time of year!

[Bigbacardi]

Old furnace - natural draft. Uses house air for combustion.
New furnace - power vented. Uses outside air for combustion.
Think how much inside house air is needed for 130kbtu....

The staging has nothing to do with your attic temp.

[Bigbacardi]

Does anyone know why my furnace room has a 6 inch air duct through the wall? It's an empty metal pipe. Is this because a furnace room needs some sort of ventilation? My house was built 30 years ago. It sure brings in a lot of cold air this time of year!

That is combustion air for furnace to use for combustion.
Air will only come in, if air is leaking out.

[DANSPEED]

Does anyone know why my furnace room has a 6 inch air duct through the wall? It's an empty metal pipe. Is this because a furnace room needs some sort of ventilation? My house was built 30 years ago. It sure brings in a lot of cold air this time of year!

I asked the same question! I was told it's for code. I can't figure out where it attaches too. My neighbor blocked his off!

My old furnace had a vent that blew hot air back into the furnace. I was told this was also code. The dumb thing was the air was so hot it would eventually melt the AC transformer mounted below it.

[TylerM4]

Does anyone know why my furnace room has a 6 inch air duct through the wall? It's an empty metal pipe. Is this because a furnace room needs some sort of ventilation? My house was built 30 years ago. It sure brings in a lot of cold air this time of year!

Fresh air intake.

It's required by code. Code requires it for safety.

To vent the exhaust the furnace pulls air from inside the house. If your house is well sealed, the furnace won't vent properly. Furnace not venting properly = risk of CO poisoning.

It's inefficient. Modern code requires the use of a heat exchanger for this purpose or the cold air is brought straight into the combustion chamber/box instead of mixing with the warm air in the house.

Don't recommend blocking it off unless you have a drafty home OR you get the equipment to measure air pressure inside and outside of the home while the furnace is running to establish if the furnace can vent properly without the duct in place.

[DANSPEED]

^^^ My new furnace doesn't use indoor air for combustion so I guess it's only for the hot water tank now. Another reason why I thought my old Olsen was so inefficient! ... But I agree, it's bloody cold air!

[Bigbacardi]

^^^ My new furnace doesn't use indoor air for combustion so I guess it's only for the hot water tank now. Another reason why I thought my old Olsen was so inefficient! ... But I agree, it's bloody cold air!

Look at the very top of water tank. See the 1.5" air gap between the tank & the exhaust vent?
That's called the draft hood.
It allows air to naturally draft up the chimney. Otherwise the draft would "pull" the flames off the burner.
Think of the amount of air that goes up the chimney when the gas is burning....hot air rises.
That air is being removed f on your house, it needs to be replaced, otherwise downdraft may occur, followed by CO poising, & death(possible)
That is why it is there. To allow for replacement air into house.
Now that houses are super air tight, this can become quite the issue.

Any good HVAC tech knows this, if your guy doesn't.....time for new guy.