Furnace vs cold weather

[BC Landlord]

Ecobee is a decent choice, however the best is the systems that use proprietary tech.
ie....communicating
Only a few mfg make communicating stats.
They use a different signal, other than the basic terminals of Y R G O C W.

I tend to disagree. Generally, anything "proprietary" turns me off. It might be superior product, but typically you end up being captive to its manufacturer. I love my YRGOCW terminals.

I am an expert, the infinity stat does exactly that.

It registers cycles, & run times.
It does a whole pile more as well.

Again, I'm not sure what the benefit of having the "# of runs" information really is, if you cannot correlate that to outdoor and setpoint temperatures. Paying for a "proprietary" thermostat to provide you with such gimmicks just doesn't cut it in my books.

[Glacier]

Thermostats are 50% off right now. I picked up the cheap Nest one at Home Depot last week. The fancier looking one is twice the price for some reason.

I still have not solved my furnace issue, but it certainly runs better with the nest. My inducer motor keeps going off and on off and on, but only when the blower motor kicks on. I replaced the control board and that didn't' do anything. Maybe the start capacitor is going. I'll have to check.

[BC Landlord]

Duplicate post. Mods, please delete.

[Bigbacardi]

Thermostats are 50% off right now. I picked up the cheap Nest one at Home Depot last week. The fancier looking one is twice the price for some reason.

I still have not solved my furnace issue, but it certainly runs better with the nest. My inducer motor keeps going off and on off and on, but only when the blower motor kicks on. I replaced the control board and that didn't' do anything. Maybe the start capacitor is going. I'll have to check.

The reason your furnace is cycling the inducer motor is because.....
You did not hook up the C wire.
C is common which allows the thermostat to use R for the 24v signal
If you only hook up 4 wires, RWYG, it causes a backfeed to the control board..
I have seen this happen multiple times, usually on an Armstrong furnace.

As far as the other poster who does not like proprietary stats....I guess you use universal parts for everything.Universal is just that.....sort of works under most applications, however is was not built specifically for one purpose.
Proprietary is almost always more expensive....usually better for the system tho.

Glacier....if you want to fix your furnace, call a legit pro. If you want to throw the parts cannon @ it until luck changes....fill your boots.
PM me for contact info of a legit tech from a legit company.

[BC Landlord]

Thermostats are 50% off right now. I picked up the cheap Nest one at Home Depot last week. The fancier looking one is twice the price for some reason.

Things on sale are always great! That's how I buy stuff myself, often proactively. As for thermostats, any programmable thermostat would do. For my rentals I choose simplest ones. But for myself, it needs to be WiFi capable.

[Glacier]

Things on sale are always great! That's how I buy stuff myself, often proactively. As for thermostats, any programmable thermostat would do. For my rentals I choose simplest ones. But for myself, it needs to be WiFi capable.

That's a given. Anyone who doesn't buy wifi capable stuff is dead to me. As far as I can tell, the difference between the $350 thermostat and the $180 thermostat is the expensive one looks nicer, and also keeps better track of your motion so as to know when you home. I definitely don't need that since someone is almost always home.

I often check in remotely to make adjustments. Many of my lights, switches, and plugs are also on wifi.

[BC Landlord]

That's a given. Anyone who doesn't buy wifi capable stuff is dead to me. As far as I can tell, the difference between the $350 thermostat and the $180 thermostat is the expensive one looks nicer, and also keeps better track of your motion so as to know when you home. I definitely don't need that since someone is almost always home.

Yup, geofencing is another gimmick.

[BC Landlord]

As far as the other poster who does not like proprietary stats....I guess you use universal parts for everything.Universal is just that.....sort of works under most applications, however is was not built specifically for one purpose.
Proprietary is almost always more expensive....usually better for the system tho.

I believe, this was directed at me. So, I'll repeat the question ... What exactly is the significance of knowing furnace's "# of runs" or "runtime" without taking into account other factors influencing its operation, most notably outside temperature? It's meaningless.

And btw, any tech savvy person could get these stats (or much better) using a cheapest thermostat, bought from a local hardware store. But the last thing one needs is some cocky technician or a salesperson trying to impress you into buying expensive stuff, with some features that you will never need, or are otherwise useless.

[Bigbacardi]

You were the one that brought up cycles per hour.
I showed that it is possible

As far as a cocky salesman goes, or getting the cheapest....
Not everybody is concerned with the cheapest price, some people buy the most expensive just because they can.

Also to add, there usually is some difference between the $180 & 350 stat.
If same brand,...prolly more options?
Or dual fuel for heat pump.
Lots of dif reasons

[BC Landlord]

I often check in remotely to make adjustments. Many of my lights, switches, and plugs are also on wifi.

I'm with you. I am frequently between here and AB, and both of my places are fully controlled/monitored remotely. Lights, plugs, HVAC, surveillance, alarms, garage doors, appliances, irrigation, power, water supply, you name it ... To me it's a necessity, and a piece of mind.

As for thermostats, other than WiFi (remote access), in my mind the next important thing is power supply. Avoid battery operated ones, if such things exist anymore in the WiFi market. It needs to get power from the furnace (needs C-wire). This is very important, as thermostats with dead batteries will not turn the furnace on when needed. In such case, if you are away during a cold snap, that could cause a lot of damage in the house. In some older houses, there is no "C-wire", but you can always steal (i.e. sacrifice) fan control wire for that purpose.

Other than that, everything else is just gimmicks. Thermostats like this could often be found on sale for about $100-ish, or even less. And they are just as good as any other. However, people often choose same manufacturer to group devices under one app, for its convenience.

[BC Landlord]

How much more is your furnace cycling per hour with this cold weather?

You were the one that brought up cycles per hour.
I showed that it is possible
...
Also to add, there usually is some difference between the $180 & 350 stat.

No, if you go back to the OP (quoted above), you will see in the very first sentence, that the question was exactly about the "cycles/hr".
And speaking of differences, here are some examples of stats from a Honeywell T5 ($100) ...



This is a summary of furnace runs day-by-day. Please note the outside temperature overlaid, and the 99% R^2. It also shows Jan 12-13 cold snap (-22C), with spikes in furnace runs. This is in Summerland.

Furnace-1day.jpg

And if I really wanted to see runs/hr, I can go down to 1 min resolution, telling you minute-by-minute what's happening. Here we have three runs, about 40 min apart, and lasting about 10 min each. I can also zoom in and out of the data, or go back historically, as much as I please.

Furnace-1min.jpg

Same thing for my A/C, except that it's showing compressor runs, and with 92% correlation to the outside temperature. I can easily add heat pumps (I don't have those), or any other device, whatever my heart desires.

AC-1day.jpg

Now, can that $380 "proprietary stats" thermostat do this, as my beloved $100 T5?

[Bigbacardi]

[/b]

How much more is your furnace cycling per hour with this cold weather?

Not sure how would you get that "# of cyc/hr", unless you are sitting there every day and every hour counting furnace runs, or having some specialized diagnostic equipment.

I do have a device installed in my house that monitors power consumption on multiple circuits individually, including the furnace (fan) circuit. I would probably be able to indirectly tell you that information, providing that I go down to 1 min resolution of data, which I don't have from that far back (Jan 12-13 cold snap).

But really, what's the importance of knowing that? Newer furnaces are multi-stage, often with heat recovery units installed. They all take care of "cycling" by modulating the output, not just turning the furnace full-on and full-off.

What you really need to look at is you gas consumption and correlate it with temperatures (i.e. outdoor and thermostat setpoints).

It's the first sentence you typed?
I showed you that it is possible???

[BC Landlord]

I showed you that it is possible???

So did I, but at a fraction of the cost of a "proprietary stats thermostat" (whatever that means), which btw are by far inferior to examples of stats depicted above.

That however still doesn't mean that such stats matter to the vast majority of users. To them, what really matters is what's on their utilities bill. If you are a salesperson or an HVAC technician, I can understand your pitch. But, what I'm saying, if you were in a market for a thermostat, buying a $400 thermostat to give you little more than gimmicks, that's an awful waste of money.

So, my suggestion still stands. Buy a $150-200 (cheaper on sale) WiFi thermostat, and for all it matters, you're just as good as with a high end $$$ one.

[Bigbacardi]

I showed you that it is possible???

So did I, but at a fraction of the cost of a "proprietary stats thermostat" (whatever that means), which btw are by far inferior to examples of stats depicted above.

That however still doesn't mean that such stats matter to the vast majority of users. To them, what really matters is what's on their utilities bill. If you are a salesperson or an HVAC technician, I can understand your pitch. But, what I'm saying, if you were in a market for a thermostat, buying a $400 thermostat to give you little more than gimmicks, that's an awful waste of money.

So, my suggestion still stands. Buy a $150-200 (cheaper on sale) WiFi thermostat, and for all it matters, you're just as good as with a high end $$$ one.

As long as you are ok with not getting the most out of the system.
For example.....the high end modulating heat pump combined with the high end modulating furnace (Carrier) will only work with the communicating stat. It will NOT work with basic controls.
You may be happy with pinching a few pennies here & there, but some people want the "good stuff".
As you are not fluent with the hi tech HVAC gear, I find it redundant to attempt to explain it any further.

[BC Landlord]

As long as you are ok with not getting the most out of the system.
For example.....the high end modulating heat pump combined with the high end modulating furnace (Carrier) will only work with the communicating stat. It will NOT work with basic controls.

Define "most of the system"? I hope you understand the system we are talking about here (from the OP's post, please go back and reread) is a newer but ordinary forced-air gas furnace. No heat pumps, no fancy gear. So, what exactly is that "most of the system" you are referring to, that a fancy thermostat (i.e. "Carrier Infinity", as suggested) would be able to get out of it, but not a basic smart thermostat for a fraction of the cost?

You may be happy with pinching a few pennies here & there, but some people want the "good stuff".

Agreed! Different people have have different ideas of what "good stuff" is for them. And yes, "pinching a few pennies" (rather 100's of dollars) matters. If those wealthy people weren't pinching them, they wouldn't be wealthy.

As you are not fluent with the hi tech HVAC gear, I find it redundant to attempt to explain it any further.

Oh please, feel free to explain it further. I am very technically inclined and educated, so I can understand you very well. Fire away! .