PPC party platform

[Gilchy]

Guess I should have clarified that I consider Nationalist Libertarian to be usually a bad thing.

[1791]

Why is it that you fear liberty ? Or strong national values.

[Merry]

Why is it that you fear liberty ? Or strong national values.

I guess it all depends on WHOSE liberty it is that you're supporting. Because in most cases, granting one person the right to something, means depriving another person of their right to something. So, in that kind of situation, whose right takes precedence, and who decides?

Ditto for "national values". Which particular values are "national", and who gets to choose?

[Gilchy]

Which particular values are "national", and who gets to choose?

The people that had families who forged this country, -the people that had to live in a sod house and burn buffalo chips... those traditions and values that were carried on from them. Not someone that didn't know where Ottawa was until 2016.

Sentimental claptrap. I have family who did just that. Doesn’t make me a better Canadian, or my culture any more “correct”, than someone who moved here from elsewhere 2 years ago. Frequently new immigrants are more excited about Canada than old stock.

[Merry]

Which particular values are "national", and who gets to choose?

The people that had families who forged this country, -the people that had to live in a sod house and burn buffalo chips... those traditions and values that were carried on from them. Not someone that didn't know where Ottawa was until 2016.

Even if I agreed with your position (which I don't) that the only Canadians whose values count are the ones who lived in "sod houses and burned buffalo chips", I'm willing to bet that even those folk would have a hard time agreeing on what should be considered "national" values.

[Gilchy]

Yet curry may as well be England’s national dish, Buick is a favourite brand in China, etc, etc. Culture isn’t a static, unchanging thing.

[Merry]

If it was Scotland, I wouldn't make it out alive, they would find it so insulting.

And that's where you'd be wrong.

Laws in the UK designed to protect new immigrants from being forced to compromise their ancestral values are quite strong (much to the chagrin of some of the folks whose ancestry in the UK goes back centuries). And, as a result, British culture today is nothing like the British Culture of even 50 years ago. Some folks like the changes, whereas others do not. But it's too late to go back now, even if the majority were to suddenly decide they wanted to. Immigration, and generous British Laws protecting those new immigrants from forced assimilation, have changed the British Cultural landscape forever (including Scotland).

I think your point, about how certain non western countries wouldn't be as accommodating if westerners were to move there en masse, is exactly the reason some folks in the West feel we've been too accommodating. But we shouldn't use the bad behaviour of others to excuse our own bad behaviour.

Frankly I don't have any problem with people living the way they choose to live, and feel most comfortable with. But that should apply to ALL who live here, regardless of cultural background, including white people of European heritage. And I think therein lies the problem; because lots of white folk of European heritage feel their culture is being subjugated to the culture of others. But is it really? Or is it just a perception?

What is it you can't do now, that you could before so many people from non western cultures moved here?

[Merry]

And that's where you'd be wrong.

Ummm...Have you ever been to the Mansfield Inn in Alloa just outside of Stirling? Or any pub in that area. It would be a absolutely brutal @$$ kicked beating of epic proportions. Then they would take me on a boat on Loch Leven to the island and hang me in the ruins of Loch Leven castle.
I haven't been there in 8 or 9 years. I used to live there, and I know how proud they are of their nationality, customs etc. Go south to a place like Brighton and ya, it's more of a liberal mix.
Brexit was fueled in part by concerns over mass immigration.

In every country, there are pockets of people who are opposed to immigration, so I've no doubt your description of the clientele of the Mansfield Inn is accurate. However, the folks in that particular pub don't represent the views of ALL British people. And, for the record, diverse views on immigration are not confined to southern towns like Brighton. Scotland also has it's share of open minded individuals, just as places like Brighton probably house a few bigots. I'm from a working class town in England's north, and there are folks there with many differing views regarding immigration. You simply can't typecast peoples' views based on where they live.

As for the comment about Brexit being fueled, in part, by mass immigration, well although there is some truth to that, it's not the kind of mass immigration you're probably thinking of. It's resentment of people moving to Britain from poorer European countries with less generous social programs, because the perception is that they're only moving to Britain to qualify for the better benefits (at the expense of the British taxpayer). And, while I'm not condoning the resentment, I do understand it because if NAFTA gave the Americans the right to move to Canada and access social programs here that are not available in the States, we'd probably resent it too.

The European Free Trade Arrangement isn't the same as the kind of Free Trade deals Canada is participating in. Because the EU is as much a political union as it is a trade deal, and as such it has all kinds of issues associated with it that simply don't apply to the kind of trade deals Canada has signed on to. If Canada had to give up as much sovereignty as Britain has had to, in order to participate in a free trade deal, I suspect free trade deals would not be as popular in Canada as they are today.

[Merry]

What is it you can't do now, that you could before so many people from non western cultures moved here?

Put up a billboard with a election issue message?

And what makes you so sure that it was immigrants who objected to that billboard? Because in my experience it's often born and bred Canadians who sometimes find such things offensive.

As to the rest of your post, Canada is a big country that has lots of room for new immigrants. But I do agree that immigration should be structured to allow the system to absorb the new people into Canadian society, at a pace that helps avoid the kinds of social issues mass migration often causes. That said, Bernier's unnecessarily low levels seem to be playing into some folks irrational fears regarding immigration, and I don't want a Prime Minister who is so willing to stoke such fears for his own personal political ends.

Max Bernier is clearly an ambitious man, who will go to any length to get what he wants. When he didn't win the Conservative leadership he simply went out and formed his own Party, even though he knew that doing so would possibly split the right and hand victory to Trudeau. But he didn't care about that, because all he seems to care about is himself and his own personal ambition. Now, with his divisive platform, he seeks to use Canadians wariness of immigrants to help propel himself to power, with complete disregard as to how creating issues where none previously existed can have a terrible negative effect on Canadian society as a whole.

He's definitely not the type of person I want to see controlling the levers of power.

[1791]

No doubt it was some white Liberal who complained.

[Scorp]

Apparently Max had no need to panic and blow his foot off while he was trying to 'destroy' a little girl.

MaximeBernier
‏
Verified account

@MaximeBernier

9h

http://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status ... 5987046400

**Must watch**

No, you don’t have to panic!

Author Marc Morano presents hard-hitting arguments and facts that dispel the artificial fear propagated by “climate emergency” alarmists.

[Scorp]

"Bernier’s vitriol toward Greta Thunberg showcases a wider trend of contempt by political figures"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics ... -trend-of/

[1791]

Get em Max. Get em. Time for some backbone.

[Scorp]

Yeah, backbone to dig himself out from the following and to try to stand tall afterwards. But maybe he has the kind of back that can only work to shovel himself deeper or to try to cover up his hole.

Up until the following string of tweets from Max I supported calls on this forum and elsewhere for him to participate in the leaders’ debates. I even highlighted that on a specific thread to show how it was accomplished for Preston Manning (a guy I happily supported with great respect).

And elsewhere I’ve mentioned the importance of keeping an open mind—hence my directly posting the video above for members to have quick reference and viewing.

Also, although I’m for, “. . . measures that should be taken to lower the consumption of carbon energy,” (that's a Maxime Bernier quote), I’m still pro-‘sands’, pro-pipeline and pro-marine transport because I believe Canada has well qualified people to ethically and morally handle our resources.

But now, as far as the leaders’ debates and the election is concerned, I stand with John Ibbitson and his conclusion in the article above, “. . . after what Mr. Bernier said on Monday, no political leader should be willing to stand beside him on any stage.” And I don't think any fair minded and ethical supporters of Canada’s energy sector will stand beside him after this as well.

Because Max has now well displayed his immorality through this:

Maxime Bernier

http://twitter.com/MaximeBernier?ref_sr ... nstable%2F

Verified account

@MaximeBernier

18 hours ago

8/ Whether or not @gretathunberg is being manipulated is her and her parents’ problem.

She has become an influential figure in a movement that is a threat to our prosperity and civilisation. If she wants to play that role, she should be denounced and attacked.

7/ I’m also concerned about all the children that @GretaThunberg has irresponsibly encouraged to skip school, or who have become more anxious, distressed, and in some cases suicidal because they believe they have no future.

6/ My concern is not for @GretaThunberg’s feelings, but for the millions of Canadians and people in other countries who will be poorer, will suffer and have their lives upended if we let her and the movement she represents impose their radical ideas.

5/ The green leftists want us to focus on the feelings of this girl so as to prevent any debate on the radical ideology she is pushing.

But she and her parents are responsible for making her an international figure at the center of political controversies. Not the rest of us.

4/ @GretaThunberg is clearly mentally unstable. Not only autistic, but obsessive-compulsive, eating disorder, depression and lethargy, and she lives in a constant state of fear.

She wants us to feel the same: “I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I fear every day.”

3/ They don’t care about democracy and say there is no time left for debate. Opposition or expression of doubt must be silenced. We must make those radical changes NOW.

They use Greta as a convenient shield. The mob accuse those criticizing her of “bullying an autistic child.”

2/ Their agenda is clear. Thunberg: “We must change almost everything in our current society.”

They want to make us poorer and restrict everything from housing, transportation, food, travel, and what we consume, to even having babies.

1/8 @GretaThunberg has become the international mascot for climate alarmism.

The goal of the green Left is to radically transform our society through hysterical fear that the end of the world is coming and we have no choice but to give up our freedoms and way of life.

[1791]

Meh. That little girl came to put a stick in someones eye. Guess she got somebody. What a snivelling bunch of pansies our country has turned into. Max should stand tall. Own what he said. Cant be turning our backs on people over one or two stupid online comments. If we did that. We wouldnt have anyone doing anything .