Leaders debate

Silverstarqueen
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Cost in Quebec, per capita for pharmacare (not dental) is $1000 to $1400 per capita.
No thankyou. Add dental to that, no thankyou, even if cosmetic is not covered, the dental for millions of baby boomers alone would be high. If they wanted to cover (non cosmetic) dental for, say children up to age whatever, I might see a logic for that.

I don't mind paying for someone's broken wrist when skateboarding.
It's the evil we know and seems to be working adequately, although a few people seem to be slipping through the cracks.
We are going to have an ever increasing cost with health care alone, which is not quite adequate in some areas yet, I think that should be the priority.
Gilchy
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Gilchy »

If you have medical benefits through your employer, I promise you the drugs portion of the plan costs more than $1000-$1400/yr, and doesn't cover everything.
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Jlabute
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Jlabute »

Gilchy wrote:This line of thought can be carried to all types of healthcare... "It was his choice to go skateboarding, why should I have to pay for his broken wrist", etc, etc. I doubt public dental care would cover cosmetic teeth procedures, same as botox or breast augmentation is not covered currently.

If our overall healthcare system was more focused on preventative health care (better eating, better fitness, healthy teeth and gum to go with things like colon screening), the savings would be dramatic over the long term, I would have to believe.

And prescription medication should have long ago been covered by provincial health care, the fact that it still isn't is a disgrace.


As ka-el said, it's very important to have a healthy mouth and teeth! Couldn't agree more! What I am not going to do though, is fund the health care system to allow daily visits to your house to make sure you brush, floss, and water-pik. Prevention starts with you, and your doctor will tell you so.

Saying that, nothing keeps my teeth healthy, and whiter than white as much as "White Supreme" lol.

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I watched the debate. It was as painful as a tooth extraction. I was hoping for a fist-fight since they gave the appearance of wanting to pound on each other.

May was sounding the UN alarm EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY. Everyone has to buy more liquor and give up ALL fossil fuels NOW! Exactly how Greta's will look in her old age but barely any smarter.
Justin was lying and seemed the most disingenuous and pre-recorded.
Blanchet was don't touch my Quebec unless it screws you and how dare you call me a Canadian.
Bernier seemed level headed, a real option for those who are right.
Jagmeet was promising everything to everyone and didn't want to fight, but will blow your plane up after the debate.
Scheer seemed more mature because he was talking to Trudeau.

You'd think they'd know the rules of debate and how to SSTTFFUU when others are talking. So I didn't pay too much attention to the debate and the MSM review of it since their fact checking is no better than the debate.
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rustled
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote:
Silverstarqueen wrote:That's just it though, I would rather be the one to decide IF I want to pay or not. With pharmacare a person who has been careful with their healthcare and may have very minimal costs, will be on the hook for sometimes very expensive medications or treatments for a person who didn't take care of themselves. I don't feel like paying for someone who has a mouthful of rotten teeth from smoking for 50 years, so they can have a nice smile (as just an example).

I somehow doubt cosmetic dental work will be included with dental care. However, if we can get people into the dentist on a regular basis, including regular cleaning, then we will save massive amounts of tax money down the road. As part of a collective (and as a citizen of Canada you are part of a collective) we all do better when we help each other.

Silverstarqueen is looking at the unintended consequences of our party leaders' fuzzy-feel-good promises, and I completely support this way of thinking about all of our leaders' promises to buy our votes with our own money.

Currently, people with a PWD designation get assistance with dental, the "health only" part of it. This means they are still on the hook for some of what many dentists do consider necessary, for example replacing a tooth that has had to be pulled. And to a certain extent the dentist is right. Some dentists are better than others at explaining to patients (or the parent) what is truly necessary, and some charge families with no dental coverage less than the "book" price. They can afford to do this because everyone with dental insurance is paying full book price for every procedure. There's a reason even folk with dental insurance have some procedures done in Mexico: they charge considerably less for the same work done, often the same quality.

Some doctors are indifferent to whether they are prescribing the most expensive version of a drug, and it sometimes the pharmacist who gets on the phone and says "is there any reason not to Brand X this instead". We could all do that when we're handed a prescription. If only generic brands are covered under a government program, who does the R&D for new products? I'd love to believe the government would be as responsible with our $ as a company has to be with theirs, but alas, we all know how governments bloat.

So the most likely outcome is we all end up paying more one way or another, and as Silverstarqueen points out, the onus is no longer on the individual to make any effort since we're all paying the taxes to support the programs anyway. This is too often true of government promises. They sound best to people who aren't prepared to take personal responsibility, and they sound humanitarian to those who don't consider the potential unintended consequences, which are always most felt by those the with good intentions think they will be helping: those who are already struggling on low to middle income.

When politicians speak of levelling the field so everyone has partial or full access to dental and prescriptions, they are telling us what we want to hear.
liisgo
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by liisgo »

I'm not buying into the belief that anyone of these leaders and their party's are any different than the next.
Our state of politic's in Canada are nothing short of a joke. If this is the standard of performance we have become comfortable with then its clear its just a big fat fail. Each of those leaders is a joke with double standards, buying off certain groups with promises and monies. Each preaching their high morals of equality, fairness and just touting themselves as the teacher to the rest of us as to how we are all to behave and yet,,,,themselves.
Our system derailed years ago. This is all we got, a group of losers leading parties that have no ability to actually put canada on a better place on the map. Far too many articles around the globe show how canada has no control, leadership to make us who we showed be. Management of our resources, our peoples are so far out of touch with what it should and could be.
Canada should be so strong and wealthy as pointed out by many.
But see, we still see people fighting for their own loser party. And yet we keep sinking lower.
None of them are man enough to stand up and fight for leadership based on their own merit verses beating the other down.
I have no one to vote for, no one is different, its the same path. And no, Your answer to "well get involved" is also the same old virtue speaking that created our system condition. We chose our own paths, and most of us, just want to see our country be in a spot where it should be.
We have completely divided our peoples, through, special and different treatments. Instead of uniting we have become so far apart that we will never reach a country of one peoples united as canadians every again.
Again listening to them speak is an embarrassment for our country, lies, deception, And the great canadian one, "touting yourself off as the great teacher to the reach of us, The political correct one".
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Ka-El
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Ka-El »

Silverstarqueen wrote: We are going to have an ever increasing cost with health care alone, which is not quite adequate in some areas yet, I think that should be the priority.

The only way we will ever bring health care costs down is with proactive measures.
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rustled
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote:
Silverstarqueen wrote: We are going to have an ever increasing cost with health care alone, which is not quite adequate in some areas yet, I think that should be the priority.

The only way we will ever bring health care costs down is with proactive measures.

We can't control the cost of proactive measures by making everything free.
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Ka-El
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Ka-El »

rustled wrote: We can't control the cost of proactive measures by making everything free.

Well then, I guess we shouldn't make "everything" free. However, having a dental care plan that includes regular cleaning and fillings, etc. (not cosmetic dental work) would bring down future health costs that will be even greater. Low income and middle income are the most likely to put off dental work due to the cost, and if and when that leads to other health issues (which it can and does) the cost to the taxpayer is many times more. As a society, we can do far better. The long held reactive approach where we wait to spend the money after the fact when the costs are far greater has not served us well.
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fvkasm2x
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by fvkasm2x »

Carrs Landing Viking wrote:Just watching debate. Bernier is looking like complete idiot. He is talking over everyone.


He is an idiot

Carrs Landing Viking wrote:Someone really should let Trudeau know that Harper is not running for office.


It's been 4 years and he still can't figure that out.
floppi
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by floppi »

He knows what everyone not CONs know, it's still Harper's party and he's still pulling strings from behind the scene.....that's why they got him fundraising and pumping up Scheer.
rustled
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote:
rustled wrote: We can't control the cost of proactive measures by making everything free.

Well then, I guess we shouldn't make "everything" free. However, having a dental care plan that includes regular cleaning and fillings, etc. (not cosmetic dental work) would bring down future health costs that will be even greater. Low income and middle income are the most likely to put off dental work due to the cost, and if and when that leads to other health issues (which it can and does) the cost to the taxpayer is many times more. As a society, we can do far better. The long held reactive approach where we wait to spend the money after the fact when the costs are far greater has not served us well.

The leaders need to do a better job of explaining what will be covered for whom, how it will be covered, and how they will ensure the cost of basic procedures covered does not skyrocket once "the government" is paying for it.

Instead, as usual, we get the fuzzy-feel-good promise without the accountability. If elected, the party making the promise then rushes to implement it immediately as the current government did with some of their rash and foolish promises, wreaking havoc. Or, they take a serious look only AFTER the election, realize only then that what they've promised is monumentally difficult, completely impractical, or political suicide due to the consequences, and renege. Just as the current government did with some of their rash and foolish promises.

It's easy for parties that won't win a majority to promise the moon.
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fvkasm2x
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by fvkasm2x »

Frisk wrote:Strong candidate, weak policies. Same as layton and mulcair, decent leaders who were stymied by their own parties platforms.


Ya, he seems like a good guy sometimes, but then other times really confuses me with his policies and/or past actions.

Still better than Trudeau, but not sure if I like his platform enough to vote for it.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by The Green Barbarian »

floppi wrote:He knows what everyone not CONs know, it's still Harper's party and he's still pulling strings from behind the scene.....that's why they got him fundraising and pumping up Scheer.


Great! I hope you are right! Imagine if we had voted for Harper in 2015, how much further ahead Canada would be right now, without all of the insane clownish behavior of our current PM.

Go Harper!!

I did play a drinking game with some people last night where we took a drink every time Justin invoked Harper. We had to stop half way through as we ran out of booze.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
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Jlabute
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Jlabute »

Last edited by Jlabute on Oct 8th, 2019, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pete Podoski
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Re: Leaders debate

Post by Pete Podoski »

Carrs Landing Viking wrote:Someone really should let Trudeau know that Harper is not running for office.


Or Doug Ford.

Scheer ripped Trudeau to shreds on that.

Most-quoted quote from the debate from what I read on social media.

Trudeau can't match up to Scheer, so Justin goes looking outside the room for targets. Another epic Liberal failure.
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