Conservative Platform

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Hurtlander
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Re: Conservative Platform

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removed
Last edited by Catsumi on Oct 11th, 2019, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Making it personal
flamingfingers
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by flamingfingers »

Drip_Torch wrote:
Hurtlander wrote:Stop trolling.. this is very clearly on page 47..


The page numbers are in the very bottom right hand corner. Let's start there.


The PDF pagination is different from the brochure pagination. The brochure pagination should prevail.
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by Drip_Torch »

flamingfingers wrote:
Drip_Torch wrote:
The page numbers are in the very bottom right hand corner. Let's start there.


The PDF pagination is different from the brochure pagination. The brochure pagination should prevail.


I don't know whether I'm looking at the brochure or the pdf? I don't think it matters.

The platform is introduced with "This election isn't about me, or even Justin Trudeau. It's about you. Who do you trust to help you and your family get ahead?" Wait. What? So this election is about you and Justin Trudeau, Mr. Scheer?

If that doesn't strike you as disingenuous, perhaps the next 7 paragraphs about Justin Trudeau will - or not.

"To create jobs, increase wages and connect Canadian industries, we will prioritize infrastructure projects that will have maximum benefit to Canada's economy" It's like magic - they're going to do that and cut 18 billion dollars out of the budget for doing it.

"Mitigate and Adapt to the Effects of Climate Change" - Oh seriously, sit down, they could have done the planet a lot of good by reducing the consumption of paper - just leave this section as blank as it really is.

Prepare Canadians Today, for the jobs of tomorrow. - Cancel the Canadian Training Credit.

SHM at all the double talk in here. Like I said, I see why they didn't release it. The whole platform makes about as much sense as being a broker that's not a broker, but was accredited, because he took one of the courses that leads to accreditation.

Scheer nonsense. Like every other Turkey gettin' dropped on the table this weekend - the things not going to fly.
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by stevemic »

I was going to vote PPC but i would much rather have the Liberals out so i voted Conservative as I think its our best chance
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as long as the Mods agree
rustled
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Re: Conservative Platform

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I am disappointed that the platform wasn't released sooner. Here's what I can see from my first read-through:

This platform better addresses my key concerns going into this election. The commitments, overall, are more substantive, more measurable and will improve Canadian government's accountability to the electorate.

For example, as a woman who lived most of my life outside urban areas, I am pleased to see the Conservatives' commitment to applying a rural lens to policy decisions. This to me is of far greater import than the gender lens the Liberals tout, which to me always came across as vacuous, meaningless pandering.

I applaud the Conservatives' commitment to correcting the conditions which allowed the Trudeau Liberals to go into this election having a) used the PMO to assist a transnational corporation intent on avoiding criminal prosecution, and b) blocked our ethics commissioner from investigating our government's wrongdoing.

It is reprehensible for any government in any democracy to do what the Trudeau Liberals have done, and far worse for them to keep pretending they have done nothing wrong while refusing to allow the investigation that would prove it. The Trudeau Liberals campaigned on empty promises of transparency and accountability. The Conservatives are committed to ensuring all governments going forward will be more transparent and accountable.

I applaud the Conservatives' commitment to correcting the conditions that allowed the Trudeau Liberals to rack up a massive deficit during a time when economic conditions meant we should have been able to be more generous with social programming without ransoming our economic future. They have made a commitment to address this not with promises of "more accountability" but with changes in law to ensure no government going forward can be as fiscally irresponsible as the Trudeau Liberals have been.

I applaud the Conservatives' commitment to correcting the problem with the Safe Third Countries agreement which encourages asylum seekers to enter our country illegally, leapfrogging those going through proper channels. Beginning with the 2015 campaign, the Trudeau Liberals have used refugees and asylum seekers as political props to bolster their party's image. The Conservative commitments to vulnerable populations are more appropriate to the genuine needs of those populations, where the Trudeau Liberals have treated them as numbers. The Conservatives' practical commitments allow us to hold them accountable.

This platform shows me the Conservative party is committed to moderately progressive governance. The aggressively progressive governance has proven ridiculously expensive, and it has exposed serious weaknesses in our systems to be exploited by whatever party is in power.

Where the Trudeau Liberal platform is intent on ignoring or, worse, compounding serious issues they've introduced or exposed in our nation's democracy, the Conservative platform is far better aligned with my personal values including "first, do no harm".

I look forward to more serious and in-depth analysis in the days to come.
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Re: Conservative Platform

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Personally I feel the Conservative climate plan should, and can be, more effective at curbing CO2 emissions on a global scale than a token virtue signalling carbon tax. Having said that, a carbon tax actually can be an effective tool to curb emissions, but it would have to be a considerably higher tax than it currently is. The carbon tax in its present form is nothing more than a tax grab, it’s just high enough to annoy people, but not high enough to make anyone think twice about the amount of fuel they’re purchasing, but the government is certainly more than happy to rake in all that extra revenue. The one sector that the carbon tax is hurting is low income folks needing to purchase home heating fuels or gases.. and the one sector that isn’t effected at all by the carbon tax are certain big multinational industries such as Lafarge cement that are 90% exempt from paying the carbon tax for some really bizarre reason considering that cement plants are amongst the worst CO2 emitters in Canada..... Could it be because Lafarge Canada is headquartered in Quebec ?

Regardless, I honestly believe the Conservative plan to actually limit and regulate the amount of CO2 anyone or any industry can emit, and fine you if you go over that amount, is more affective than simply charging a tax on the purchase of fossil fuels. I also believe the Conservative plan to help the ocean going shipping industry to transition from using bunker oil to LNG is a very very good way to help curb CO2 emissions on a global scale... consider this, the shipping industry is responsible for somewhere around 2.2% of the total CO2 emissions in our global atmosphere, Canada is only responsible for 1.6%..
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by floppi »

Most people don't have the time to digest or analyze the Conservatives Party Platform because it was just put out late yesterday afternoon while Canadians were too busy out voting. I'm sure a lot of people are wondering why this platform came out so late, after the leader's debate and while the vote was in progress. Shouldn't a party platform to have any meaningful discussion of its merits not have come out before the debates and certainly before the voting process began? Afterall, shouldn't the voters be able to digest and analyze the contents of their platform before one decide if they were worth voting for or not?
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Re: Conservative Platform

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floppi wrote:Most people don't have the time to digest or analyze the Conservatives Party Platform because it was just put out late yesterday afternoon while Canadians were too busy out voting. I'm sure a lot of people are wondering why this platform came out so late, after the leader's debate and while the vote was in progress. Shouldn't a party platform to have any meaningful discussion of its merits not have come out before the debates and certainly before the voting process began? Afterall, shouldn't the voters be able to digest and analyze the contents of their platform before one decide if they were worth voting for or not?

Surprisingly I actually agree with you on this point, but I can’t help but wonder why only the Conservatives are being justifiably ridiculed for this, when the NDP didn’t release their platform until yesterday either.
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by Veovis »

floppi wrote:Most people don't have the time to digest or analyze the Conservatives Party Platform because it was just put out late yesterday afternoon while Canadians were too busy out voting.


Aka I'm not going to read it but will call it out. In reality there is lots of time to read it and make actual conclusions but when you are a zealot for the frat boy racist it will never matter but we can hope you get 4 years of the cons to comprehend it at least.
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Re: Conservative Platform

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floppi wrote:Most people don't have the time to digest or analyze the Conservatives Party Platform because it was just put out late yesterday afternoon while Canadians were too busy out voting. I'm sure a lot of people are wondering why this platform came out so late, after the leader's debate and while the vote was in progress. Shouldn't a party platform to have any meaningful discussion of its merits not have come out before the debates and certainly before the voting process began. Afterall, shouldn't the voters be able to digest and analyze the contents of their platform before one decide if they were worth voting for?

I agree the platform should have been produced much sooner.

Those with a genuine commitment to voting based on policy still have time to read it, and they still have time to consider the analysis put forward by others. It is disingenuous and misleading to suggest people who genuinely wanted time to read it and analyze it have no time to do so because they were too busy out voting yesterday.

No platform would ever have changed the minds of people determined to loathe the Conservatives or determined to prop up the Liberals no matter what.

What it has done, so far, is reassure centrists who, like me, used to support the Liberals. It seemed likely to me that while the Liberals pander to woo votes from the far left, the Conservatives would sensibly remain a viable choice by not pandering to the far right.

Their platform reassures me they are committed to moderately progressive governance.

What's more, it also reassures me that the Conservatives are committed to fixing the problems in our systems which have been so exploited and exacerbated by the Trudeau Liberals.

These are not the meaningless promises of "our part will do politics differently" and "our party will be transparent" and "Canada's back". The Conservatives' commitments are commitments intended to prevent any party forming government in Canada from being as fiscally and ethically irresponsible as the Trudeau Liberals have been.
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Re: Conservative Platform

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That's kinda disingenous rustled because a "centralist" like you had already made up your mind long before the platform came out.
The evidence is all in the past posts in multiple threads.
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by Merry »

As with ALL Party Platforms there are some things I like, and some things I don’t. But, overall, I think this is the best of what’s currently on offer.

Reducing the tax rate on income under $47,630 from 15 per cent to 13.75 per cent Is something that will benefit everybody, but particularly those in the lowest income bracket. As will repealing the carbon tax, and removing GST from home heating bills.

I also like the idea of the Green Transit tax credit, designed to get people out of their vehicles and into public transit. If more people begin to use public transit, more and better scheduled public transit will become available. And that’s a good thing.

Cracking down on money laundering in the Real Estate sector is long overdue, and will help lower house prices in markets where such activity is rampant.

And I like the idea of helping new parents by making maternity benefits tax free, and bringing benefits for adoptive parents into line with benefits for biological parents. Also, by increasing the Government’s percentage contribution to RESP’s the Conservatives will help families better save for their children’s post secondary education.

Their promise to hire an expert panel to review our unwieldy tax system and recommend improvements is a measure that’s long been advocated by economists of all political stripes, and which is long overdue. And they’re also promising to improve our resource development approvals process by creating a Ministry dedicated to consulting with indigenous land rights holders, and also to de-politicize the resource development approvals process by making it more difficult for foreign funded groups to game our system. Both much needed and long overdue steps, if we are ever to break the deadlock we currently find ourselves in.

They’ve promised to build new infrastructure, prioritizing things like roads and bridges that will help our national economy, as opposed to funding local pet projects designed to buy votes in particular riding’s. While at the same time honouring infrastructure projects the Liberals have already committed to.

The following quote illustrates their commitment to protecting our future environment, and illustrates how all the fearmongering to the contrary is simply not true.
A new Conservative government will also pursue natural infrastructure projects that leverage the resilience of our natural landscapes. Enhanced or constructed wetlands and other natural features can provide low-cost protection against floods, drought, and water quality issues, while also providing value like recreation, fish and wildlife habitat, and carbon sequestration.

Canada’s waterways opened our nation to explorers and offered early trade routes that set the stage for a dynamic, modern economy. Today, our waterways support our trade-based economy and sustain our livelihoods in several ways. They should not be used as a toxic dumping ground. A new Conservative government will work with the provinces and municipalities to bring an end to raw sewage being dumped in waterways across Canada.

Since taking office, Justin Trudeau has failed to protect our waterways from pollution. In one of her first acts as Environment Minister, Catherine McKenna allowed the City of Montreal to dump 8 billion litres of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River. In 2017 alone, municipalities dumped 215 billion litres of untreated raw sewage into lakes, rivers, and marine environments across
the country.

The previous Conservative government had an excellent track record on waste management. We created the Wastewater Systems Effluent Regulations to set higher standards for wastewater treatment.
We also made wastewater investments across the country, including significant investments in Montreal and Victoria.


On balance, I think it’s a fairly good Platform, the majority of which I can support.
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by rustled »

floppi wrote:That's kinda disingenous rustled because a "centralist" like you had already made up your mind long before the platform came out.
The evidence is all in the past posts in multiple threads.

Over and over in these threads, I have sincerely invited people to convince me the Liberals could be trusted with my vote.

Over and over I posted the Liberals should be holding Trudeau accountable, toning down the aggressive progressivism, pulling in the horns with which they were goring folk who simply wanted the Liberals to provide moderately progressive governance, and scaling back the fiscal irresponsibility.

Over and over in these threads I was instead presented with insincere fear-mongering nonsense and steaming piles of idiocy ignoring or downplaying Trudeau's wrongdoing and telling me Scheer and the Conservatives couldn't be trusted and might even be less ethical and less responsible than the Trudeau Liberals had proven themselves to be.

At the outset of the campaign, it seemed to me unlikely I'd be able to vote for the Liberals in the coming election and might never again be able to support them with my vote.

The Conservative platform shows me I can, with a clear conscience, vote for the most centrist party in this election.

I am particularly pleased to see they intend to bring forward measures to ensure no party in Canada can so easily get away with doing what the Trudeau Liberals have done.

I will be interested to see whether or not the Liberals will support the measures the Conservatives have already committed to.
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by Drip_Torch »

rustled wrote:This platform shows me the Conservative party is committed to moderately progressive governance.


Okay, it's about as moderately progressive, as the Liberal platform is fiscally conservative - I'll give you that.

Question for you - Do the Fiscal Plan balance sheets make any sense to you? For example, Repeal the Carbon Tax, 2020-21, a 222 million dollar loss. 2021-22 a 168 million dollar loss. Get that, obviously tossing the baby out with the bath water isn't going to be cheap, but I get lost on the years from 2022 on...

Some how, by repealing the carbon tax, the gov't sees revenue of 180 to 187 million dollars a year going forward. Is that coming from some else's pocket? Maybe the Chinese are going to pay it, or something? Or is that a sneaky little hand is quicker than the eye shell game that see's the carbon tax repealed in such a way that it's not actually repealed?

Where is there any relief for workers facing displacement from traditional jobs? Homeless folks? Students? Education seems to be the one area where our money could be well spent to retool certain aspects of our economy that are simply unsustainable, but there isn't anything in this budget. (blow a kiss, fire a gun. All we need is someone to lean on.) All that I see in here is boost the registered education savings plan. I guess we're just going to write off another generation, or two?

Repeal Trudeau's Tax increases on small business savings/Exempt spouses from taking advantage of those savings - Isn't this the reintroduction of the Real estate limited partnerships (RELPs)? A super lucrative tax loophole that allows investor's to defer the taxes over the life of a mortgage, while getting a 50 per cent tax break? A deduction of 100 per cent of your initial investment and while you're getting income paid back, you can transfer that income to a spouse, partner, or child in a lower tax bracket to avoid even more taxes? 2.9 billion dollars in tax revenue forfeited, over 5 years. Interesting, too bad only the wealthy can play this game. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/andrew ... -1.4375171

Reopen The Office Of Religious Freedom, million bucks per year? Doesn't this office just replace the Office of Human Rights, Freedoms and Inclusion? They have a 5 million dollar a year budget - does this mean the swap back to defending religious freedoms over human rights comes with a million dollar bump?

rustled wrote:I look forward to more serious and in-depth analysis in the days to come.


Me too, but I doubt the platform changed anyone's mind. I can hardly wait to see how this conservative leadership race turns out.

My ballot's in the box.
Drip Torch - an upright and steadfast keeper of the flame, but when tilted sideways the contents spill and then our destiny is in the wind...
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Re: Conservative Platform

Post by rustled »

Drip_Torch wrote:
rustled wrote:This platform shows me the Conservative party is committed to moderately progressive governance.


Okay, it's about as moderately progressive, as the Liberal platform is fiscally conservative - I'll give you that.

Question for you - Do the Fiscal Plan balance sheets make any sense to you? For example, Repeal the Carbon Tax, 2020-21, a 222 million dollar loss. 2021-22 a 168 million dollar loss. Get that, obviously tossing the baby out with the bath water isn't going to be cheap, but I get lost on the years from 2022 on...

Some how, by repealing the carbon tax, the gov't sees revenue of 180 to 187 million dollars a year going forward. Is that coming from some else's pocket? Maybe the Chinese are going to pay it, or something? Or is that a sneaky little hand is quicker than the eye shell game that see's the carbon tax repealed in such a way that it's not actually repealed?

Where is there any relief for workers facing displacement from traditional jobs? Homeless folks? Students? Education seems to be the one area where our money could be well spent to retool certain aspects of our economy that are simply unsustainable, but there isn't anything in this budget. (blow a kiss, fire a gun. All we need is someone to lean on.) All that I see in here is boost the registered education savings plan. I guess we're just going to write off another generation, or two?

Repeal Trudeau's Tax increases on small business savings/Exempt spouses from taking advantage of those savings - Isn't this the reintroduction of the Real estate limited partnerships (RELPs)? A super lucrative tax loophole that allows investor's to defer the taxes over the life of a mortgage, while getting a 50 per cent tax break? A deduction of 100 per cent of your initial investment and while you're getting income paid back, you can transfer that income to a spouse, partner, or child in a lower tax bracket to avoid even more taxes? 2.9 billion dollars in tax revenue forfeited, over 5 years. Interesting, too bad only the wealthy can play this game. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/andrew ... -1.4375171

Reopen The Office Of Religious Freedom, million bucks per year? Doesn't this office just replace the Office of Human Rights, Freedoms and Inclusion? They have a 5 million dollar a year budget - does this mean the swap back to defending religious freedoms over human rights comes with a million dollar bump?

rustled wrote:I look forward to more serious and in-depth analysis in the days to come.


Me too, but I doubt the platform changed anyone's mind. I can hardly wait to see how this conservative leadership race turns out.

My ballot's in the box.

I can't agree the Liberals' platform is fiscally conservative. It seems to me you intended to be disgusted by the Conservative platform, and therefore you were. I approached it from a perspective of cautious optimism and found some pleasant surprises. Nothing horrifying or disgusting.

That said, I haven't had a chance to go through it again, and intend to do so. You have quite a few questions about the financial statement, as do I. I'll try to answer them as best I can when time permits. Like you, I doubt the platforms will sway any of the decided voters. It's often the undecided voters who actually decide the outcome of an election.

Here are some questions for you: Do you want the party you voted for to support the measures on pages 53 and 54 of the platform document? How about the measures re fiscal responsibility on page 89? Or the supports for rural Canadians? Would you want the party you voted for to support, or object to, the $1M for the Minister of Rural Affairs?

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