Divided country

Silverstarqueen
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Re: Divided country

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Imagine who is going to pay the bill if a ship spills its oil cargo all along b.c.'s coast. Imagine how many years before the ecosystem recovers, the salmon stocks, the whales. Imagine if one of those pipelines leaks into a river, they are fairly thin.

How often do oil pipelines leak?
Since 1986 pipeline accidents have spilled an average of 76,000 barrels per year or more than 3 million gallons. This is equivalent to 200 barrels every day. Oil is by far the most commonly spilled substance, followed by natural gas and gasoline
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Urban Cowboy
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Re: Divided country

Post by Urban Cowboy »

Catri wrote:I think the idea that we're more divided than ever is a bit of hyperbole. When I was a kid in the late 1970s, the whole west was alienated (as opposed to Alberta/Saskatchewan and die hard Interior BC Tories today) and Quebec was afire with seperatist sentiment. Truly most of us are still, and always will be, proud to be Canadians. The grown ups among us aren't throwing tantrums and realise that any of the mainstream parties are competent to govern the country we love, even when they're not our chosen team.


Agree with most of your post, but define "mainstream parties" because I highly doubt the NDP or Greens would be competent, in so far as running the whole country goes, just thinking about it makes me nauseous.

The other two at least have a track record and some experience.
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Drip_Torch
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Re: Divided country

Post by Drip_Torch »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Drip_Torch wrote:
I've got the same problem as Alberta. If my taxes stayed in house I could have bought a brand new F-350.


Imagine how much you would have if environmentalist nutjobs allowed you to sell your product for $30 per unit more than you get now, by simply building a pipeline to the ocean! Imagine that! Imagine a world where Canada isn't controlled by brainless communist idiots! Can you?


If only there were a reason to believe, instead of just imagine.

You know I'm not a hard "no TMX" - I'm a hard "this thing needs better planning and consultation".

A plan to respond from Edmonton isn't a response plan - it's a recovery plan.

We own it, let's do it right. Cut the number of tanker trips, load bigger tankers. Remove the risk from the population center of BC and cut down the risk/frequency through bigger tankers running less often.

I have no problem with a Hong Kong billionaire selling Canadian oil to the US. Just don't bulltrip me into imagining something different is happening here.
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Catri
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Re: Divided country

Post by Catri »

Urban Cowboy wrote:
Catri wrote:I think the idea that we're more divided than ever is a bit of hyperbole. When I was a kid in the late 1970s, the whole west was alienated (as opposed to Alberta/Saskatchewan and die hard Interior BC Tories today) and Quebec was afire with seperatist sentiment. Truly most of us are still, and always will be, proud to be Canadians. The grown ups among us aren't throwing tantrums and realise that any of the mainstream parties are competent to govern the country we love, even when they're not our chosen team.


Agree with most of your post, but define "mainstream parties" because I highly doubt the NDP or Greens would be competent, in so far as running the whole country goes, just thinking about it makes me nauseous.

The other two at least have a track record and some experience.

I think the NDP could govern competently. I definitely wouldn't agree with a lot of what they would do, but my hair also wouldn't burst into flames if it happened. Having said that, I acknowledge that the Liberals and Conservatives are the only parties likely to govern in the foreseeable future.

ETA I don't consider the Greens to be mainstream, they're just not there yet and I'm not sure they ever will be.
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Ka-El
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Re: Divided country

Post by Ka-El »

Imagine a world where Canada isn't controlled by brainless communist idiots!

Pretty easy for any Canadian with a grade twelve education. ooo - watch out for those scary communists [icon_lol2.gif]
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Ka-El
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Re: Divided country

Post by Ka-El »

Catri wrote:I think the idea that we're more divided than ever is a bit of hyperbole. When I was a kid in the late 1970s, the whole west was alienated (as opposed to Alberta/Saskatchewan and die hard Interior BC Tories today) and Quebec was afire with seperatist sentiment. Truly most of us are still, and always will be, proud to be Canadians. The grown ups among us aren't throwing tantrums and realise that any of the mainstream parties are competent to govern the country we love, even when they're not our chosen team.

Great post. I'm with you when it comes to being proud to be Canadian and all we stand for - diversity, inclusion, tolerance, etc. I was born and grew up in Alberta, but have been in BC since I was 25 years. However, I am Canadian first and foremost.
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Lady tehMa
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Re: Divided country

Post by Lady tehMa »

I'm a Canadian, and proud to be one.

But certain things make me think.
Equalization payments go out, and when we have difficulties do we see any of that back?

https://www.policyschool.ca/unpacking-canadas-equalization-payments-2018-19/

Equalization 2018-2019.PNG


Now borrowing an image SunnyWays posted

GDP 2014-2018.PNG


If Quebec is making so much, why are they taking so much?

The East doesn't understand the West. The attitude in the past four years has been "shut up and give me your money".
It seems to me, that we would be better off without them dictating to us.
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Ka-El
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Re: Divided country

Post by Ka-El »

Lady tehMa wrote: The East doesn't understand the West. The attitude in the past four years has been "shut up and give me your money". It seems to me, that we would be better off without them dictating to us.

Agreed, and we're going to need strong leadership for that discussion (and maybe less seats with the Bloc).
I don't believe the current leadership is strong enough, but it could have been worse …

So, how did all that pandering to Quebec work out for you?

REGINA — Andrew Scheer seems to think all the self-abasement was worth it. Twenty-five years after the Progressive Conservatives fractured into three chunks over special treatment for Quebec, Scheer made a lavish, explicit appeal not just to Quebecers but nationalist Quebecers: a single tax return administered by the province, more control over immigration and culture, a proudly hands-off approach from the federal government to new restrictions on civil servants wearing religious symbols on the job — this from a party, and a leader, for whom protecting religious freedom both here and abroad is a unique selling point.

And what did the Tories get? A third-place finish behind the resurgent Bloc Québécois, and the Liberals, who pandered to Quebec interests the least of any party …

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/elections ... &ocid=iehp
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crookedmember
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Re: Divided country

Post by crookedmember »

"If Quebec is making so much, why are they taking so much? "

Equalization payments are based on average incomes of residents of the province, not the gross GDP of the province.

The goal is to provide all Canadians with roughly equal services, no matter where they live.

Quebec has some of the lowest incomes in Canada; BC, Alberta and Ontario some of the highest.

Quebec's population is almost as much as BC and Alberta combined, yet its GDP is only about 60% of those two combined.

By the way, the current equalization formula was put together by the last Harper regime, with Jason Kenney one of the authors.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Divided country

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Silverstarqueen wrote:Imagine who is going to pay the bill if a ship spills its oil cargo all along b.c.'s coast.


and here we go with the nonsensical fear-mongering again.
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Drip_Torch
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Re: Divided country

Post by Drip_Torch »

crookedmember wrote:"If Quebec is making so much, why are they taking so much? "

Equalization payments are based on average incomes of residents of the province, not the gross GDP of the province.

The goal is to provide all Canadians with roughly equal services, no matter where they live.

Quebec has some of the lowest incomes in Canada; BC, Alberta and Ontario some of the highest.

Quebec's population is almost as much as BC and Alberta combined, yet its GDP is only about 60% of those two combined.

By the way, the current equalization formula was put together by the last Harper regime, with Jason Kenney one of the authors.


Is it based on the average incomes? I thought it was based on the gdp per person? I could be wrong. Here's another chart that shows the national share of the GDP and GDP per capita.

Untitled-3.jpg


Another showing average income per person by province.

Untitled-4.jpg


Either way, in a nutshell, Alberta doesn't pay equalization payments. An Albertan pays the same federal tax as everyone else and as you can see there are twice as many people in Quebec paying taxes as there are in Alberta. Yes, Alberta has a higher average wage and yes we could extrapolate Albertan's, on average, pay more federal taxes than folks from Quebec, however a person making $200,000 in Quebec pays the same federal tax as a person making $200,000 in Alberta.

The land leases by oil companies barely pays to keep the coffee pots warm in Alberta gov't offices and is not taxed.

The royalties stay in Alberta and are not taxed.

The corporate taxes, federally, in Alberta are the same as everywhere else, however business in Alberta enjoy a significant tax advantage over businesses in other provinces due to the provincial tax rate and structure.

Alberta does not pay equalization payments. (full stop)
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bob vernon
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Re: Divided country

Post by bob vernon »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Silverstarqueen wrote:Imagine who is going to pay the bill if a ship spills its oil cargo all along b.c.'s coast.


and here we go with the nonsensical fear-mongering again.



The Exxon Valdez sank when, 1987? How many years did it take to drag Exxon through the courts to pay for it all? 26 years. Exxon fought it every step of the way and hired batteries of lawyers who swamped the the State of Alaska and the fishermen with paper. Fishermen on the BC coast saw all this and how many of the Alaskans died of old age waiting for their settlement. Don't wonder why people on the BC coast don't want a repeat. Yeah, they're afraid. For good reason.
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crookedmember
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Re: Divided country

Post by crookedmember »

C'mon you guys! The oil industry is very responsible!

I wonder who in this divided country Alberta wants out of will end up paying for this mess?

Old, unproductive oil and gas wells could cost up to $70B to clean up, says new report

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/orphan ... -1.5089254
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Re: Divided country

Post by bernie428 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Silverstarqueen wrote:Imagine who is going to pay the bill if a ship spills its oil cargo all along b.c.'s coast.


and here we go with the nonsensical fear-mongering again.


The BC Ferry that ran aground just a few years ago.
The Exxon nightmare.
Tug boats and barges.
It seems easy for you to disregard it, but people that live there have a reason to think differently.
If nobody makes sure there's a plan to deal with it, when it happens, you can bet nobody will 'deal' with it.
No, wait, the locals, the environment, and me, the tax payer.
Let someone leave a disaster, and they will.
bernie428
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Re: Divided country

Post by bernie428 »

crookedmember wrote:C'mon you guys! The oil industry is very responsible!

I wonder who in this divided country Alberta wants out of will end up paying for this mess?

Old, unproductive oil and gas wells could cost up to $70B to clean up, says new report

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/orphan ... -1.5089254


Exactly.
Where are the billionaires when this gets taken care of?
The CEOs, the investors, they disappear into the night, as always.
I'll just wait for my tax bill.

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