Proportional Representation

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Glacier
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Re: Proportional Representation

Post by Glacier »

Frisk wrote:
coffeeFreak wrote:I find it kind of funny how Proportional Representation has finally become a "thing" with many Conservative supporters, only because the shoe is now on the other foot.


Proportional representation would be debilitating for the conservatives and I'm sure most of their supporters understand that. If they're patient then they'll get their turn to govern soon enough.




That's not true at all. We DO NOT know how people will vote under proportional representation. We would probably see more right-wing parties which would siphon many votes from left-wing parties. We saw this with Reform. When they split from the progressive conservatives, they by themselves got more votes at their peak in western Canada than the PCs ever got, and the PCs still got votes, so clearly they were siphoning votes from other parties, namely the NDP.

Way back in the 1950s we experimented with electoral reform in BC. The two main parties at the time, the Liberals and Conservatives thought it would be a great way to get rid of the small parties, but it backfired big time as people ended up voting for the right-wing Social Credit and the left-wing CCF (later the NDP).

So, no, we will not get a dominant left-wing winner under PR because politics always lends itself to a situation where left and right share power approximately equally. Parties adopt and change only enough to get power and no further. Sometimes it takes them a decade or two to figure it out, but then they do as little as possible to maintain power while the other main party figures out how to get back in power.
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crookedmember
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Re: Proportional Representation

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Frisk wrote:
Proportional representation would be debilitating for the conservatives and I'm sure most of their supporters understand that. If they're patient then they'll get their turn to govern soon enough.


Unless they give the boot to a lot of the far-right radicals, Republican wannabes and anti-choicers, and move the party back to the center where the old Progressive Conservatives were, they may not get a shot at governing ever again.

The pool of Canadians their policies are acceptable to is just way too small.
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Glacier
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Re: Proportional Representation

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crookedmember wrote:Unless they give the boot to a lot of the far-right radicals, Republican wannabes and anti-choicers, and move the party back to the center where the old Progressive Conservatives were, they may not get a shot at governing ever again.

The pool of Canadians their policies are acceptable to is just way too small.

Under PR the right would have a split. You'd have progressive conservatives in one party, social conservatives in another, libertarian conservatives in another, cultural conservatives in another. They'd all get people elected, and then perhaps gang up to form government.

Under PR you no longer have to form a big tent to get elected.
Last edited by Glacier on Oct 29th, 2019, 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Proportional Representation

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crookedmember wrote:Unless they give the boot to a lot of the far-right radicals, Republican wannabes and anti-choicers, and move the party back to the center where the old Progressive Conservatives were, they may not get a shot at governing ever again.

The pool of Canadians their policies are acceptable to is just way too small.


Could you not say the exact same thing about the NDP and the Greens?
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Ka-El
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Re: Proportional Representation

Post by Ka-El »

crookedmember wrote: The pool of Canadians their policies are acceptable to is just way too small.

Yup. Good observation. The Cons won 34.4% of the popular vote. The Liberals won 33.1% of the popular vote. That means (using math) the NDP and Green combined won almost 32.5% of the popular vote (a couple independents were also elected). All together we have 65.6% of the population voting against the destructive and short-sighted policies of the Cons. So far (despite all the disinformation campaigns underway by the right in the States and here) two thirds of Canadians are definitely not supportive of right-wing recklessness when it comes to cutting services. I hope that trend continues.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Proportional Representation

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Ka-El wrote: All together we have 65.6% of the population voting against the destructive and short-sighted policies of the Cons..


And also using math, you have 66.9% of the population voting against the destructive and short-sighted policies of the Liberals. Despite disinformation campaigns going on in the US with the Democrats, Canadians are just not comfortable handing a majority over to parties like the Liberals. And rightly so.
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Glacier
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Re: Proportional Representation

Post by Glacier »

Here are the election results. You're welcome.

cndelectionresuls.png
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