Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

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Frisk
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by Frisk »

My guess of 343.00 was probably off unless we get some crazy rainfall or something. 342.80 seems more likely.
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Glacier
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

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stuphoto wrote:Just wondering, and please consider me as a complete rookie on the subject.

When the lake is considered as Full, is that based on historic levels, the point right before it overflows the banks or something else?
Does anyone have the data from the floods a few years ago as a comparison?

Full Pool means that's the lake level they want to hit. During dry winters they hold back on the amount of water leaving to lake so that the lake is likely to hit full pool during the summer.

BTW, I wrote a blog post in 2017 summarizing the record lake level rise. It peaked at 343.27m on June 11th. This year is seeing it rise even after that date, but it should stop in the next few days.

Frisk wrote:My guess of 343.00 was probably off unless we get some crazy rainfall or something. 342.80 seems more likely.

Why didn't they include the supposed record year of 2017 in your chart? Seems like they should have.
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Frisk
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

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Glacier wrote:Why didn't they include the supposed record year of 2017 in your chart? Seems like they should have.


Yeah I'm not sure why, it would be nice if they did. Maybe someone at castanet will read this.
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by Glacier »

Frisk wrote:
Glacier wrote:Why didn't they include the supposed record year of 2017 in your chart? Seems like they should have.


Yeah I'm not sure why, it would be nice if they did. Maybe someone at castanet will read this.

BTW, 2017 was FAR higher than 1948 according to the government data.
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by Troy »

Frisk wrote:
Glacier wrote:Why didn't they include the supposed record year of 2017 in your chart? Seems like they should have.


Yeah I'm not sure why, it would be nice if they did. Maybe someone at castanet will read this.

The "they" in this situation is actually me. I'm the one who created our Okanagan Lake Levels page, including the graphs. It has been set up to show the current year and the previous 2 years, along with lines across showing full pool and 1948, and has been doing things that way for a couple of years now. With it being more than a couple of years ago, how would you like to see the 2017 lake levels on there?

As always, if you see any glitches with site or have any feature requests, please let me know. Thanks! :)

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Frisk
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by Frisk »

Thanks troy that'd be great to see the 2017 levels. Hopefully I didn't seem critical or anything, I find the lake levels page very useful.
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by Troy »

You're welcome. You didn't seem critical to me. In between numerous urgent projects, I've been going around trying to improve certain pages. Lately, I've spent a little bit of time on the Okanagan Lake Level page because I also find it useful to me, personally. So, that's why I'm very interested in your feedback about it. I definitely want to correct any problems and add new features - in this case, the 2017 data. Hopefully I can make that happen soon.
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

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I own waterfront property and my South property pin is now some 30 feet in the lake. Does anyone suggest the Surveyors swam out there to drive it in? NO

Okanagan Lake is at 342.637 metres today. That is 157 mm above 'full pool'. This is huge considering the target high/low fluctuation is only 1.2 meters. Looking at your charts, obviously something happened mid April. The Ministry of Forests, predicting there may be a drought (which could decimate downstream wine crops) and raised the flood gates at Penticton. Seasonal water for downstream users is the entire reason the Ministry plays with the lake level and how they go about it is about as reliable as a your average 'crystal ball'.

Whenever the lake surpasses 'full pool', that means the Ministry has screwed up once again. Every time they screw up, I loose a little more of MY property to the Province. Anything below 'high water mark' then reverts to the Province as Property Owners are not allowed to reclaim eroded land. If God took my land that's between me and him/her but God had nothing to do with it.

The act of physically altering the lake level is NOT an 'act of God' yet they claimed all the resulting damages had nothing to do with their actions.

In 2017 the Ministry predicted a drought and raised the flood gates. Instead of a drought, there was a deluge. As a result, half the private property on the lake was damaged and they blamed it on 'Climate Change'....how convenient! They hired a guy 'GUY', that by they way had previously warned the Okanagan Basin Board of impending crop/drought damage, to author reports which nobody read and where nobody was to blame. That's how the Province handles 'risk management', just blame GOD!

The 2 consecutive year graph below was created from Okanagan Lake 'mean elevation' records (Kelowna 08NM083) sent to me by Environment Canada. The Orange line is the 2017 profile superimposed at the same April 14th date and elevation of 1.206 in 2018. right click and open in new tab for full size graph
Image

*** Note the April 14th lake elevations of 1.685 and 1.206

The April 14th 2018 elevation of 1.206 could have easily been achieved on this same date in 2017.

Had the Ministry used the same April 14th 2018 start elevation of 1.206 in 2017, instead of acting upon their bogus 'drought prediction', no flooding would have occurred at all in 2017 !!!!!!

The really tough pill to swallow is the Ministry is too damn ignorant to explore other options to provide seasonal water to downstream users. Remove the Penticton flood gates entirely (put it all back the way it was). Then install siphon pipes from Okanagan Lake into the Penticton Channel. This creates a controlled flow system into Skaha that can be used whenever there is insufficient flow.

Isn't it about time these idiots were removed from the loop?
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

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I didn't look at the mission creek snow pack chart for over a week because I thought it would all be gone by now but apparently there's still over half of it left, about 40cm worth of water in the greystokes area. Combine that with the rain (and possibly snow at higher elevations) forecasted for this weekend and maybe it will actually reach 343.00? Kind of a strange set of circumstances with the really late snow melt and all the rainfall lately.
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Frisk
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by Frisk »

It's getting close to 342.70m which is about where they started installing flood barriers and sandbags in 2017.
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brentville
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by brentville »

Frisk wrote:It's getting close to 342.70m which is about where they started installing flood barriers and sandbags in 2017.


You seem to be informed so I'd like to provide some more info followed by one question.

In order for Okanagan Lake to flood 2 things must be true:
1. Inflows must exceed outflow capacity
2. Lake levels must already be abnormally high or Biblical inflow volumes (100 mm/day for 40 days)

The Ministry knowingly uses unreliable data to predict inflows. Eg: email from me to Kim Hyatt of DFO, who wrote the inflow program in use by the Ministry, and his reply...
Image

10 day forecasts are junk yet they make predictions of inflows months in advance? *^%#@!

Reimer, who heads up the Ministry team operating the Penticton Dam, has stated more than once that he prefers Okanagan Lake flooding to insufficient water for downstream users. He controls the lake level and prefers flooding? The Province reimbursed all Provincial, Regional and Municipal entities 100% for 2017 flood damages. Shouldn't the Ministry also be responsible for flood damages to private properties?
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

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brentville wrote:
Whenever the lake surpasses 'full pool', that means the Ministry has screwed up once again. Every time they screw up, I loose a little more of MY property to the Province. Anything below 'high water mark' then reverts to the Province as Property Owners are not allowed to reclaim eroded land. If God took my land that's between me and him/her but God had nothing to do with it.


No, you are absolutely incorrect. That isn’t how it works at all.
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brentville
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by brentville »

LANDM wrote:
brentville wrote:
Whenever the lake surpasses 'full pool', that means the Ministry has screwed up once again. Every time they screw up, I loose a little more of MY property to the Province. Anything below 'high water mark' then reverts to the Province as Property Owners are not allowed to reclaim eroded land. If God took my land that's between me and him/her but God had nothing to do with it.


No, you are absolutely incorrect. That isn’t how it works at all.


Sorry but, I'm right and you're wrong doesn't cut it.
If you have a different opinion on how the lake levels fluctuate or the Riparian Act works then let's hear it.
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by LANDM »

LANDM wrote:
brentville wrote:
Whenever the lake surpasses 'full pool', that means the Ministry has screwed up once again. Every time they screw up, I loose a little more of MY property to the Province. Anything below 'high water mark' then reverts to the Province as Property Owners are not allowed to reclaim eroded land. If God took my land that's between me and him/her but God had nothing to do with it.


No, you are absolutely incorrect. That isn’t how it works at all.

brentville wrote:
Sorry but, I'm right and you're wrong doesn't cut it.
If you have a different opinion on how the lake levels fluctuate or the Riparian Act works then let's hear it.

Ok, I’ll go sentence by sentence.
First sentence, wrong because it doesn’t mean they screwed up. The lake is above full pool on many years, and adjusting outflows is far more difficult than you may think because it is greatly affected by heat and rain in addition to the available high level water and snowpack.

Second sentence, wrong because you don’t "loose" of your property to the province.

Third sentence, wrong because the high water mark does not change yearly. The high water level for the year may have changed but the official high water mark does not. It is totally incorrect to believe that the land below the yearly high water level "reverts to the province". I don’t know how to say it further than it simply not being the case, no matter what you think.

Last sentence, wrong because nobody took your land. God or otherwise.

Happy?
Now, since you are the one that was questioning, how about showing a survey plan of a lakeshore property (it can be any one, and you don’t have to self identify by using yours) that has a province-resurveyed, smaller lot because of the really high levels in 2017. That is just the easiest one to throw to you since it is both recent and a near record level. I’ve made your argument very easy to prove if what you claimed is correct. But it’s also easy to throw out there because you won’t find that it happened.
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Re: Updated Hydrometric Data Charts for Lake Okanagan

Post by GordonH »

The amount of rain draining into Okanagan lake lately would be huge concern for everyone who’s property is prone to flooding.
More often this continues to happen, maybe it’s time to think seriously about putting home on stilts (those with basement this wouldn’t work).
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