Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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Drip_Torch
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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Raven1 wrote: Aug 2nd, 2021, 6:13 am When you have a look at Coulson’s history with the forestry industry in a greater context than putting out wildfires….there lies your truth.

Coulson is very good at what they do and recognized world wide for their abilities, equipment and innovation.

Forestry in British Columbia, and dare I say Canada, has many skeletons lurking and Coulson doesn’t need to lower his standards.
Sing it and I'll buy the LP.

:up:

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To Fight Wildfires, California Turns to a Family With a Fleet of $8,000-an-Hour Helicopters
Coulson Aviation’s night-flying, water-siphoning Chinooks are on call to battle blazes on four continents.
More at:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -advantage
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bb49
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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California is where the big bucks are.
Longer fire season and paid in Yankee dollars.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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bb49 wrote: Aug 5th, 2021, 1:46 pm California is where the big bucks are.
Longer fire season and paid in Yankee dollars.
I've never met Britt and I guess he needs to be concerned about the money, but I can tell you for Wayne, that's never been what it's about. His only concern was not losing too much money.

They've done well and I'm sure they will continue to do great things.
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mullyman
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by mullyman »

soo. you be the one to tell the homeowners who lost their lifetime of possessions because the govt sent firefighting equipment away... pay the money!
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by GordonH »

mullyman wrote: Aug 6th, 2021, 7:38 am soo. you be the one to tell the homeowners who lost their lifetime of possessions because the govt sent firefighting equipment away... pay the money!
BC is burning up, add more debt and get Coulson equipment hitting the fires.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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There is an excellent article just out in Bloomberg Businessweek about Coulson's. Who knows what's going on with the BC MOF and Coulson -- some kind of 'whizzing contest'? But it seems the MOF deep thinkers are ignoring a powerful fire-fighting tool, albeit expense, that could be making a significant difference fighting campaign fires and saving structures, right here in BC. A very interesting read...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -advantage
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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I don't understand why this is a constant drum that people beat on. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We have 100's of planes in service - and people whine about equipment from 1 company that isn't being used. That's like the peanut gallery telling a business (who chooses not to serve someone who has no shoes or service) that the business should just simply acquiesce and let that customer in.

The government has said "why" they don't need this company over and over. Its probably even explained many times in this thread. So why do people that don't have the knowledge and expertise - continually second guess fire bosses and the managers when they say they don't need these planes?

It was the same thing with the state of emergency. Horgan was speaking to the managers and bosses who reported in to the ministry. Who didn't feel it was necessary to declare emergency at that time. Meanwhile the peanut gallery was blah blah blah about doing so every day and blaming Horgan. Its silly as hell.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 8th, 2021, 4:51 pm I don't understand why this is a constant drum that people beat on. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We have 100's of planes in service - and people whine about equipment from 1 company that isn't being used. That's like the peanut gallery telling a business (who chooses not to serve someone who has no shoes or service) that the business should just simply acquiesce and let that customer in.

The government has said "why" they don't need this company over and over. Its probably even explained many times in this thread. So why do people that don't have the knowledge and expertise - continually second guess fire bosses and the managers when they say they don't need these planes?

It was the same thing with the state of emergency. Horgan was speaking to the managers and bosses who reported in to the ministry. Who didn't feel it was necessary to declare emergency at that time. Meanwhile the peanut gallery was blah blah blah about doing so every day and blaming Horgan. Its silly as hell.
Let’s see with current amount of equipment being used there has been 640,000 hectares lost plus countless buildings and homes.

I wonder how much less of both would have happened with 2 sets of equipment being used.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 8th, 2021, 4:51 pm I don't understand why this is a constant drum that people beat on. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We have 100's of planes in service...
That's right - you don't understand.

Image

The topic was started over the release of a Type 1 Helicopter - A Sikorsky 61 - we don't have hundreds. Out of the "planes" pictured above we don't have any. For the most part, the planes we do have were manufactured in the late 1940's and late 1950's - and we don't have hundreds.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by nucksRnum1 »

Drip_Torch wrote: Aug 8th, 2021, 7:34 pmThat's right - you don't understand.

Image

The topic was started over the release of a Type 1 Helicopter - A Sikorsky 61 - we don't have hundreds. Out of the "planes" pictured above we don't have any. For the most part, the planes we do have were manufactured in the late 1940's and late 1950's - and we don't have hundreds.
Whats to understand? Our managers and bosses say they don't need them. End of story. Besides that whole compliment wouldnt be available - because they would be down south getting paid American. So why is this company always brought up as a messiah of fire suppression?

These planes wouldn't be needed if the BC Liberals didn't gut ministry of forests. Years ago bosses like my mom were managing silvaculture and the forests with MOF. You underestimate what I do and don't know in regards to our forest resource and practices. My mom is spazing out at 72 wanting to knock heads together because 2 back burns ended up out of control. I wish she was able to be out there still and show the scabs out there how to do things properly. Without Coulson even needed at all.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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If you think the geography in general, the fuel conditions, or the fire weather at the moment are at all conducive to "back-burning" [icon_lol2.gif] ; or believe that only two firing operations have gone out of control - I haven't underestimated what you know.

Investment and innovation is what sets Coulson Next-Gen assets apart from the current fleet in BC.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by mullyman »

nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 8th, 2021, 4:51 pm I don't understand why this is a constant drum that people beat on. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We have 100's of planes in service - and people whine about equipment from 1 company that isn't being used. That's like the peanut gallery telling a business (who chooses not to serve someone who has no shoes or service) that the business should just simply acquiesce and let that customer in.

The government has said "why" they don't need this company over and over. Its probably even explained many times in this thread. So why do people that don't have the knowledge and expertise - continually second guess fire bosses and the managers when they say they don't need these planes?

It was the same thing with the state of emergency. Horgan was speaking to the managers and bosses who reported in to the ministry. Who didn't feel it was necessary to declare emergency at that time. Meanwhile the peanut gallery was blah blah blah about doing so every day and blaming Horgan. Its silly as hell.
don't need those planes? tell that to the parties who have lost homes due to m.o.f dragging their heels once again on a small fire that stared weeks ago.. didn't we learn anything from the 03 fires? i saw that fire the morning after the initial lightening strike.. it was very small, and could have been handled easily.. what ever happened to the firefighting mantra "hit it fast, hit it hard" ?
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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mullyman wrote: Aug 8th, 2021, 8:39 pm
nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 8th, 2021, 4:51 pm I don't understand why this is a constant drum that people beat on. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We have 100's of planes in service - and people whine about equipment from 1 company that isn't being used.
don't need those planes? tell that to the parties who have lost homes due to m.o.f dragging their heels once again on a small fire that stared weeks ago.. didn't we learn anything from the 03 fires? i saw that fire the morning after the initial lightening strike.. it was very small, and could have been handled easily.. what ever happened to the firefighting mantra "hit it fast, hit it hard" ?
Exactly...! I'd like to see nucks explain to these people that they are whiners... Possibly nucks would have to lose his own home to wildfire to truly appreciate the gravity of it all...

https://globalnews.ca/news/8096503/whit ... ire-anger/

From the Bloomberg article:

"On July 9, one of Coulson’s Chinooks, flying with the support of LA County aircraft, unloaded 80,000 gallons of water in 32 drops from 2:30 a.m. to 4 a.m. while fighting the Tuna Fire in Malibu. 'If that fire had hit the ridge, she was going into $10 million homes.'”

Notice this was at night, something not happening in BC right now. This level of attack likely would have saved structures in the Whiterock fire.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by JagXKR »

Are you saying Coulson is certified to night firefight in Canada? Because no one is certified, unless you have some link from TC to contradict this?
Also hey Drip, where are Coulson's scoopers? Seems like to have a fleet worth anything they would carry CL215's or equivalent.
Coulson uses the dollar to exist. If we ever get back to 2011 exchange rates watch the overpriced Coulson hit a bumpy and extremely tough time.
Conair has been modernizing as well and at a fraction of the cost that ripoff Coulson charges.

As for the structures lost, the small fire was no where near any structures when it started. There were fires that were near structures at the time. Those were being hit hard and fast. The need for aircraft in the area of the structures lost was not there. Ground crews were. Not enough boots on the ground. And there were times when all fixed wing aircraft were grounded. IFR conditions and all the IFR approaches were cancelled. Can't takeoff or land so ground crews need to be just as big of a sword in the fight for structure protection as aircraft. Maybe more.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by Drip_Torch »

JagXKR wrote: Aug 9th, 2021, 10:52 am Are you saying Coulson is certified to night firefight in Canada? Because no one is certified, unless you have some link from TC to contradict this?
Also hey Drip, where are Coulson's scoopers? Seems like to have a fleet worth anything they would carry CL215's or equivalent.
Coulson uses the dollar to exist. If we ever get back to 2011 exchange rates watch the overpriced Coulson hit a bumpy and extremely tough time.
Conair has been modernizing as well and at a fraction of the cost that ripoff Coulson charges.

As for the structures lost, the small fire was no where near any structures when it started. There were fires that were near structures at the time. Those were being hit hard and fast. The need for aircraft in the area of the structures lost was not there. Ground crews were. Not enough boots on the ground. And there were times when all fixed wing aircraft were grounded. IFR conditions and all the IFR approaches were cancelled. Can't takeoff or land so ground crews need to be just as big of a sword in the fight for structure protection as aircraft. Maybe more.
I don't know, many of these points seem like speculation and none of them have anything to do with the release of a type 1 helicopter moments before the situation in BC took a turn for the worst. I don't know if the ship BCWS decided it didn't need was being charged out in CAD/USD, or what - maybe you do. I know Coulson has Canadian registered S-61's, those are working back east.

Night cert would require BCWS management to do some work and that's not as easy as telling everyone "we're doing all we can and have all the resources we need". The Air Attack would need to be coordinated from a Bird Dog plane that is capable of night ops and we all know who has that contract. Why would Coulson invest in BC? At every turn his endeavors have received a thumbs down from BCWS management. The Martin Mars was BC's darling, until Wayne bought it and then it was a piece of junk - and it didn't matter how much Wayne invested in it.

Yes, Conair has been upgrading. What choice did they have? The last Convair 580, which you can purchase yourself for less than half the price of a detached home in Vancouver, just isn't going to cut it in a market that's worldwide and full of innovators bringing new aircraft and innovations into the fray. Lucky for Conair, Covid happened, and there were a bunch of cheap "Q's" available in January 2021 for them to play a little catch-up. The paint was still dripping off the tail on the one I saw last week.

I think you mean IFR conditions - VFR approaches cancelled, but that hasn't been the only issue and I'm sure you know that.

Regardless you do make a great point. As much as the public has had their expectations raised to the point of believing aerial assets put out fires, the fact is they don't. Never have, never will. The planes make a lot of noise, are very visible and under marginal fire conditions can suppress a fire long enough for crews to get in there and do the work. If the crews aren't there, the weather will eventually look after it.
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