Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

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MAPearce
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by MAPearce »

Vladtheimpaler wrote: Aug 10th, 2021, 7:08 pm Coulson has equipment that's much more effective and efficient at fire suppression than the mars aircraft. They say so themselves. Thats why they benched the mars.
Yes .. they benched it because it has it's "limitations" like the size of lake it can scoop from , range , and no one wants to pay the price to have the biggest bomber with the heaviest payload ( until recently ) to get the jobs done.

ADMIITEDLY , The cost to keep the Mars in the air includes the cost of finding or making parts for such an old aircraft..

Sad really ..
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GordonH
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by GordonH »

As each day passes and more citizens homes and businesses are threatened the decision not to also hire Coulson for this fire season.
Will rest squarely on the shoulders of ndp government.


Added later: those on the ground and flying are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. Keep up hard work everyone the majority very much appreciate it. :up: :up:
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by JagXKR »

Is it really that we need more tankers or helicopters? Right now the tankers are useless. Visibility is so low the tankers can't operate out of CYYF.
The water wall seems like a really good idea. Would love to see it working for Logan Lake or the other interface fires.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... -wildfires
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by XT225 »

JagXKR wrote: Aug 13th, 2021, 11:54 am Is it really that we need more tankers or helicopters? Right now the tankers are useless. Visibility is so low the tankers can't operate out of CYYF.
Not 100% correct. Last evening the 3 convairs and bird dog flew a mission to Quadra Island and back. Not a problem getting in/out; however they could not bomb fires in our area due to the heavy smoke in the valley.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by JagXKR »

You're right. I should have been more specific. Our area is non ops for them.
BTW I saw then come back last night, could barely see them when they went over my abode.
Heard them fine. :biggrin:
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by TedD »

seewood wrote: Aug 10th, 2021, 10:11 pm
Likely and parts would have to be made, (gov. red tape to have them certified) Maybe the BC government wanted to supply jet fuel only. They only re-fueled at Sproat Lake.. ( long turn around times..)
BS. They have their own tanker truck and they can refuel at whatever body of water they setup a temporary base at.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by seewood »

TedD wrote: Aug 13th, 2021, 5:31 pm BS. They have their own tanker truck and they can refuel at whatever body of water they setup a temporary base at.
From a 2015 brief stint with BCFS : On Saturday, July 18, the Martin Mars flying boat completed its first mission under their new 30-day contract with the British Columbia Wildfire Service. According to Coulson Flying Tankers, the owner of the water-scooping air tanker that can hold up to 7,200 gallons, the aircraft flew a total of 8 hours. Of that, 4 was spent ferrying across the province and back, and the other 4 was used to drop 9 loads of water for a total of 52,800 gallons. They did it without having to land and refuel.

A retired forest service member told me years ago that for most of their time in BC they refueled at Sproat Lake. Not being amphibious they have to have a hazmat operation in place while they fuel bobbing about in the water. Booms etc.
Correct in Coulson has tanker trucks and can and do set up pretty much where ever they have to, but suspect that is their heli fleet with jet A fuel.

On longer contracts in the States they did set up temporary bases at large bodies of water for extended periods.

Anyway, enough on the Mars, they are not used for fire fighting any more.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by canuck500 »

A lot of Coulson's equipment isn't certified by Transport Canada. Anything with a military heritage certainly isn't
so rule out the Herks, Chinooks & the Blackhawks.

I always find it interesting that you don't see any other operators be they fixed or rotary-wing crying to the media when they get cut from a fire, only Coulson.

An unconfirmed rumour I heard was that after the end of a 5-day temporary hire for the 61 Coulson's demanded a 60-day contract. The ministry replied they would be happy to offer him the 5-day contracts everybody else was getting & taking. Coulson apparently didn't like that answer, so they packed up & left.

So should there be two sets of rules in fire aviation contracting in BC? One set everybody else plays by & a special set of rules for Coulson Aviation?
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by nucksRnum1 »

canuck500 wrote: Aug 16th, 2021, 12:13 am A lot of Coulson's equipment isn't certified by Transport Canada. Anything with a military heritage certainly isn't
so rule out the Herks, Chinooks & the Blackhawks.

I always find it interesting that you don't see any other operators be they fixed or rotary-wing crying to the media when they get cut from a fire, only Coulson.

An unconfirmed rumour I heard was that after the end of a 5-day temporary hire for the 61 Coulson's demanded a 60-day contract. The ministry replied they would be happy to offer him the 5-day contracts everybody else was getting & taking. Coulson apparently didn't like that answer, so they packed up & left.

So should there be two sets of rules in fire aviation contracting in BC? One set everybody else plays by & a special set of rules for Coulson Aviation?
Rumor also had it that there was an expectation in the past by Coulson to refurbish the mars with parts that didnt exist anymore. What company in their right mind makes a demand that parts have to appear out of thin air while under contract?
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by OldIslander »

Did any of y'all see Coulson on '60 Minutes' last night?

https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/vi ... -the-deep/

(The link might not last long -- if it's disappeared, search for '60 Minutes Season 52 Episode 2 Take the flight to the night'.)

Seeing their equipment working was amazing. I'll bet there are some 'behind closed doors' conversations within our MOF today. How many structures did we lose this summer, while the very latest in high-tech aircraft are down working for California? Re the crazy expense, they made the case that the public doesn't hear about the fires that Coulson's 'quick strike' choppers put out quickly before they became multi-million dollar campaign fires. A couple of hundred thousand dollars in air time in the first few hours, might prevent countless millions in campaign fire fighting, loss of property, loss of life?

The BC MOF must at the very least, reconsider Coulson's technology.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by seewood »

OldIslander wrote: Sep 27th, 2021, 3:09 pm Seeing their equipment working was amazing. I'll bet there are some 'behind closed doors' conversations within our MOF today.
I wouldn't be surprised at all about conversations at the upper echelons of the ministry, maybe even a politician might sit in.
The bean counters will analyze the cost benefit, cost per liter of water dropped, logistics etc.

I'll tell that in the 90's Coulson was logging at night around the Prince George area. They had large genset light towers set up and they got the 10+ hours a day they wanted on the aircraft. This lowered their fixed costs on the aircraft based on a hourly rate. More profit $$ in their pocket. That time of year up there if you managed 7 hours flying logs, you were doing pretty well.
Definitely a company that will think outside the box.
US military aircraft in civilian companies can fly up here under a restricted permit, no passengers, just direct flight crew.
Something like that was in place when I worked for Croman. They used an ex military 61 to fly logs but no passengers allowed.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by Drip_Torch »

Wayne Coulson has always been an innovator. I remember the much hated grapple and the riggers whining and complaining about the S-61's creaming the settings. Me, I liked the fact that the paycheques cleared the bank every week and accepted if that's what it took to get the wood in, then I benefited. Heli-logging wasn't a sure thing in the early days.

Yep, remember the night ops logging and have always wondered why things were moving so slow to adapt to fires.

I'm sure Coulson's innovations have been noticed, but I'm not so sure that means the company is going to get dealt in. Unfortunately, I see the signs here in BC's "flight sim/firefighting world" of an end-run in the making. So, I'm not going to be too surprised to see the conversations focused on how to get something similar going in BC - without using Coulson.

Another thing the company has going for it is the RADS XXL slip in tank system for the C-130's.

https://www.coulsonaviationusa.com/news ... h-aircraft

But I guess our C-130's are too busy flying around empty pickup trucks.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Full Disclosure: I'm a fan and ex employee.

Here's a sight I don't think we'll see anytime soon. You'll have to download it because I'm too lazy to upload it to youtube and it's sitting on google drive. It's safe - trust me. :smt045

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJI-Pw ... sp=sharing

PS: Yes, I totally blew the landing and had to go around.
Last edited by Drip_Torch on Sep 27th, 2021, 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by Catsumi »

OldIslander wrote: Sep 27th, 2021, 3:09 pm Did any of y'all see Coulson on '60 Minutes' last night?

https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/vi ... -the-deep/

(The link might not last long -- if it's disappeared, search for '60 Minutes Season 52 Episode 2 Take the flight to the night'.)

Seeing their equipment working was amazing. I'll bet there are some 'behind closed doors' conversations within our MOF today. How many structures did we lose this summer, while the very latest in high-tech aircraft are down working for California? Re the crazy expense, they made the case that the public doesn't hear about the fires that Coulson's 'quick strike' choppers put out quickly before they became multi-million dollar campaign fires. A couple of hundred thousand dollars in air time in the first few hours, might prevent countless millions in campaign fire fighting, loss of property, loss of life?

The BC MOF must at the very least, reconsider Coulson's technology.

I was interested enough to try your link. Unfortunately for Canadians, the content is blocked to us. :135:
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by Drip_Torch »

You could try this one, it worked for me.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california ... 021-09-26/

Love the ending...

"What's the resistance, why the resistance"?

"You know, my gut tells me based on decades of experience in the Fire Service that there's just an inherent resistance to change. But we've got to evolve. We've got to pivot. We are standing, you know, in a new world. It's not a new norm. It's the norm".


:smt045
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Re: Coulson Aviation Released by BC MOF

Post by Catsumi »

Thank you for the new link that I watched start to finish

Our forests, wildlife, homes and livestock are allowed to burn while our anemic, lackadaisical and seriously outdated methods of firefighting headcheeses twiddle their thumbs wonder what to do now.

Admittedly, second hand accounts of our firefighters punching out the clock at sundown (when fires COULD be challenged more successfully when temperature drops) and not getting back on the job until 10:00 a.m. (gotta have those long drawn out safety chats first) when temperatures are climbing, are a recipe for a disaster in the making. No bloody wonder that firefighters turn tail and run for it.

Here, in this video, is a technologically more effective way of firefighting that we need. Yes, it costs, but on the balance sheet is a win in comparison to the devastation that we suffer from today.

For all of us who don’t want another horror show as seen this smoke-filled summer, watch this 13 minute video and learn from it.

Gasp….these retrofitted choppers suck up 10x the amount of water in 90 seconds than our lame ducks used this summer. AND, they can work at night when fires are most vulnerable. Retardants spread successfully so that fires that could have been named and remembered didn’t get the press that could have been.
“A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory.” - Mark Twain

“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” – Edward Abbey

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