Pastafarian

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Glacier
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by Glacier »

youjustcomplain wrote: I think you're right as to why a non christian won't be elected in the USA. However, I think you've misrepresented the position of the atheist; you're not alone.

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.
It's not atheistic to state that god doesn't exist. That's hubrism. (if that's even a word)
As an atheist, I don't believe in a god, but I don't have any sense that I'm right and that anyone else is wrong. Just that I don't believe what others do.

There are plenty of examples of atheists running their mouths, spouting off about how they know. They/we don't. Nobody knows. knowledge of god lives in the realm of the agnostic. For belivers and non believes, we use faith and lack there of. :)
If you look at the polling data, something like 30% of US does not believe in God or belong to a religion. This is far higher than the number of Evangelical Christians in the US. BUT only 2 to 5% of the US identifies are atheist. I know lots of people who are "nothing in particular," and hate atheists like they hate evangelicals because they believe that "what you believe is good for you and what I believe is good for me." It's not that they aren't atheist, it's that they don't identify as such. Another hang-up people have with the term "atheism" is that it implies a lack of belief, and a lot of people would rather have a positive belief than a negative one. This is why they often they will identify with the religion of their parents or think of themselves as "spiritual but not religious."
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my5cents
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by my5cents »

Glacier wrote:If you look at the polling data, something like 30% of US does not believe in God or belong to a religion. This is far higher than the number of Evangelical Christians in the US. BUT only 2 to 5% of the US identifies are atheist. I know lots of people who are "nothing in particular," and hate atheists like they hate evangelicals because they believe that "what you believe is good for you and what I believe is good for me." It's not that they aren't atheist, it's that they don't identify as such. Another hang-up people have with the term "atheism" is that it implies a lack of belief, and a lot of people would rather have a positive belief than a negative one. This is why they often they will identify with the religion of their parents or think of themselves as "spiritual but not religious."
Isn't a "positive belief" of a "negative belief" semantics ?

I'm a positive person I believe that the earth "is round". I'm not a negative person, I don't have the belief that the earth "is not flat." See any difference ? I hope not it's the same thing.

Isn't the whole topic semantics. I "identify" (just love these newly used terms) as an atheist. BUT if the second coming comes tomorrow, I think that will change my mind. My money is on it not happening, ever, but I don't ignore proof positive. Just not going to waste my time until that happens.

I govern myself on the principle of Occam's Razor. The existence of god is right up there with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

George Carlin summarized it well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0vOxfl6suo
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
youjustcomplain
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by youjustcomplain »

Glacier wrote: If you look at the polling data, something like 30% of US does not believe in God or belong to a religion. This is far higher than the number of Evangelical Christians in the US. BUT only 2 to 5% of the US identifies are atheist. I know lots of people who are "nothing in particular," and hate atheists like they hate evangelicals because they believe that "what you believe is good for you and what I believe is good for me." It's not that they aren't atheist, it's that they don't identify as such. Another hang-up people have with the term "atheism" is that it implies a lack of belief, and a lot of people would rather have a positive belief than a negative one. This is why they often they will identify with the religion of their parents or think of themselves as "spiritual but not religious."
Oh I think atheists have a bad name. Some atheists are real jack-arsses. The Christians I've met who are jerks, don't claim to be the way they are because of Christianity. So we just think of them as jerks and move on. The atheists I've met who are real jerks, tend to not shut up about how much smarter they are than everyone else, and how they know god doesn't exist and are truly condescending towards everyone of faith. As a result, atheists are cast in a bad light.

There is nothing about Atheism that makes people behave poorly or earn a bad reputation. It's simply not believing in something pretty specific.

If the US has really low atheism rates, I suspect it's more perception than reality. My understanding is that northern european countries have high atheism rates. I suspect the difference is that people probably don't instantly hate atheists in those countries so more people are open minded about it.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by youjustcomplain »

my5cents wrote: I'm a positive person I believe that the earth "is round". I'm not a negative person, I don't have the belief that the earth "is not flat." See any difference ? I hope not it's the same thing.
I don't see that as semantics. If there was only two possible correct answers, then yes, it would be semantics.
Stating that you believe the earth is round is option 1.
Statin the you don't believe the ear is not flat would mean the same thing. Option 1 again, only worded strangely.

However, the possibilities of the earths shape is not binary.
Stating you believe the earth is round. option 1.
Stating you don't believe the earth not flat doesn't mean you believe it's round.
You may have no believe in the shape of the earth. You may think it's a rectangle. you may think it's square, or a triangle. Perhaps you think it's a pear shape. Stating that you don't think it's not flat doesn't imply or even suggest that you think it's round.

George Carlin was great. That particular video makes me laugh every time. thanks for the link. :)
capleton
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by capleton »

youjustcomplain wrote:
Glacier wrote: If you look at the polling data, something like 30% of US does not believe in God or belong to a religion. This is far higher than the number of Evangelical Christians in the US. BUT only 2 to 5% of the US identifies are atheist. I know lots of people who are "nothing in particular," and hate atheists like they hate evangelicals because they believe that "what you believe is good for you and what I believe is good for me." It's not that they aren't atheist, it's that they don't identify as such. Another hang-up people have with the term "atheism" is that it implies a lack of belief, and a lot of people would rather have a positive belief than a negative one. This is why they often they will identify with the religion of their parents or think of themselves as "spiritual but not religious."
Oh I think atheists have a bad name. Some atheists are real jack-arsses. The Christians I've met who are jerks, don't claim to be the way they are because of Christianity. So we just think of them as jerks and move on. The atheists I've met who are real jerks, tend to not shut up about how much smarter they are than everyone else, and how they know god doesn't exist and are truly condescending towards everyone of faith. As a result, atheists are cast in a bad light.

There is nothing about Atheism that makes people behave poorly or earn a bad reputation. It's simply not believing in something pretty specific.

If the US has really low atheism rates, I suspect it's more perception than reality. My understanding is that northern european countries have high atheism rates. I suspect the difference is that people probably don't instantly hate atheists in those countries so more people are open minded about it.
Really? I've never met any atheist's like that, saying how they are smarter then everyone else but I've met plenty of Christians who think they are morally superior to atheist's, pagans, Hindu's etc and how they are all going to go to hell. That is why I am very suspicious of religion.
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Glacier
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by Glacier »

my5cents wrote:Isn't a "positive belief" of a "negative belief" semantics ?

I'm a positive person I believe that the earth "is round". I'm not a negative person, I don't have the belief that the earth "is not flat." See any difference ? I hope not it's the same thing.
A lot of people define atheism as "absence of belief," which, to a lot of people who want to belong or be categorized, rubs them them the wrong way. This is only my theory, so I could be wrong about this being one the reasons why most "non-religious people don't like being called atheists. There are certainly many factors. I was looking a co-worker's Facebook conversation the other day, and she got downright offended when someone called her an atheist. She has never set foot in a church and I assumed she was an atheist myself, but she replied, "I'm not an atheist, I'm just non-practicing." I know she is quite open and friendly toward religion in that she lets her kids go to church with friends, and I haven't asked her why she doesn't like the atheist label, so I can only speculate. Perhaps it's because she (like so many out there) believes in God in the general sense, but just keeps it to herself, or perhaps she associates atheism with antagonism toward religion. I know I have heard others over the years express negative comments toward the "anti-religious" crowd, associating such an ideology with bigotry and hatred.
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alanjh595
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by alanjh595 »

Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3] Another definition provided is the view that "human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by youjustcomplain »

capleton wrote: Really? I've never met any atheist's like that, saying how they are smarter then everyone else but I've met plenty of Christians who think they are morally superior to atheist's, pagans, Hindu's etc and how they are all going to go to hell. That is why I am very suspicious of religion.
I find it hard to know I'm talking to an atheist, because most of us don't lead with that foot in any conversation. I do read a lot though. I also watch a lot of debates on youtube. Do yourself a favour and read the comments section of debates on religion. I think you'll find many of them are loaded with ignorance and some of the worst offenders are those bragging about their atheism. To be fair, the comments may be just trolls, and they may be coming from 10 year olds. No idea. But it's interesting to see how people think.

I agree %100 on the way Christians see atheists. We are without moral. The close friends I have who are devout Christians are some of my favorites to talk to. They can't reconcile that I'm a good person with the fact that I'm an Atheist. They question what defines my sense of morals if not the god I don't believe in. They have a point. I don't know what defines my morals, but there is no challenging them. I have them, just like everyone else. They are convinced God is real and gave me my morals even if I choose to not believe in him. Since I'll never know either way, no sense in arguing about it. :)
youjustcomplain
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by youjustcomplain »

Glacier wrote: A lot of people define atheism as "absence of belief," which, to a lot of people who want to belong or be categorized, rubs them them the wrong way. This is only my theory, so I could be wrong about this being one the reasons why most "non-religious people don't like being called atheists. There are certainly many factors. I was looking a co-worker's Facebook conversation the other day, and she got downright offended when someone called her an atheist. She has never set foot in a church and I assumed she was an atheist myself, but she replied, "I'm not an atheist, I'm just non-practicing." I know she is quite open and friendly toward religion in that she lets her kids go to church with friends, and I haven't asked her why she doesn't like the atheist label, so I can only speculate. Perhaps it's because she (like so many out there) believes in God in the general sense, but just keeps it to herself, or perhaps she associates atheism with antagonism toward religion. I know I have heard others over the years express negative comments toward the "anti-religious" crowd, associating such an ideology with bigotry and hatred.
This is a great story imo. And I think you're likely %100 right. She probably either believes privately, or just don't want to be associated with anti-religious because they can be a very hateful group.
The Anti-religious crowd could be defined as Anti-theists. They don't just not believe in god. They believe there is no god. The reject god. They may want others to reject god. It seems just as much a potential religion as any faith.

The atheist is someone who just doesn't believe. I don't think we need to believe god isn't real. Just not believe he is.

The agnostic deals in knowing and not knowing. Nothing to do with faith or lack of. Just like AlanJH just linked the definition.
1nick
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by 1nick »

I’d call myself an anti-theist. In as far as I don’t believe a theists claim that they know there is a god, simple as that. I’m not anti that particular person, I’m just not buying the they know the truth. They obviously don’t.
I don’t see a lot of atheists on a street corner preaching that you better believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or else you’ll be scalded in a boiling pot of water for all of eternity.
Let’s play “Spot the Putin Patsy”
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alanjh595
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Re: Pastafarian

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Pastafarian Prayer
Our pasta, who art in a colander, draining be your noodles. Thy noodle come, Thy sauce be yum, on top some grated Parmesan. Give us this day, our garlic bread, …and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trample on our lawns. And lead us not into vegetarianism, but deliver us some pizza, for thine is the meatball, the noodle, and the sauce, forever and ever. R’amen.
https://pastafarians.org.au/pastafarian ... an-prayer/
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alanjh595
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Re: Pastafarian

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The True and Wonderous Story of How Was Delivered Unto Auntie Dee Dee the Most High and Holy Prayer:

As was recounted to Solipsy, Humble GalleyScribe


And The Flying Spaghetti Monster did come unto Dee Dee waiting at the front of Fred’s Italian Corner, for she was hungry and her wait did seem to be unending, and he filled her with His Heavenly Smells, and unto her He did speak:
“My True Believer and most excellent Administrator, My keeper of the knowledge that All is My Creation, and as much as any creationism is to be taught as science, My Creation is to be taught as science, I ask of you this: Carry to My True Believers these instructions, that when they give thanks for the Holy Feast, they shall remember and pray these words”:

Our One Creator Which Flies and is Spaghetti and a Monster,

I believe Thou art the Creator of Goodness and Nourishment, and of Sustenance. I thank the Pasta, and the Sauce, and the Meatballs, for they provide me all my needs.
I thank Thee for the Many Beverages that Thou provides, for they engender true fellowship, and I will quaff them heartily, be they Beer, or Wine, or Sweet Iced Tea (in the South), or even Milk or Kool-Aid, for it is not good to withhold fluids, and I need to take care of my Body, as Beneficiary of Thine Holy Goodness.
I thank Thee for the giving of healthful Green Salad, the Yummy Garlic Bread, and the Blessed Cheese for the top of my Spaghetti, and also I am most thankful that If I eat All my Dinner, a Dessert of Extreme Chocolateness will surely follow, preferably Dark Chocolate, for it is Good.
I believe that Thou are neither Male, nor Female, but are instead beyond the reaches of the gender confusion of Man and Woman Kind, yea, thou are ageless, timeless and all-encompassing.
I most humbly thank Thee, oh Noodly Appendaged One, for Touching me with the mental capacity to adapt the mythologies of This Universe to aid and comfort me here, until that day I am able to join together with my Pastafarian Brothers and Sisters at the foot of the Beer Volcano, and enumerate my specifications at the Stripper Factory, so that happiness and contentedness and good cheer be present for all, forever and forever,
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alanjh595
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Re: Pastafarian

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Hail Marinara

Hail Marinara,
Full of Spice,
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is filled with thee.
Tasty art thou amongst sauces,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy jar, tomatoes
(although fools believe they are vegetables).
Holy Marinara,
Chief Amongst Toppings,
Save a plate for us now,
and at about 6 o’clock when dinner is served, if you would be so kind.
RAmen.
https://www.loose-canon.info/page53.htm
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my5cents
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Re: Pastafarian

Post by my5cents »

It's back in the news : https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/384366 ... ens#384366

I think Gary Smith the leader of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster of BC (CFSMBC) has a solid point.

Who is ICBC to say which religion is legitimate and which is not. The religion is legally constituted religious organization in hood standing under the province's Societies Act.

Smith argues that his pirate hat is part of his church's religious headwear, as is a pasta strainer.

ICBC instead of making a ruling that would obviously violate his rights, they have taken to issuing him paper temporary licenses, good for two months. He has to return every two months, have another photo taken (that is never used to produce a DL) get another temporary paper DL at a cost of $17 each time.

We have Sikhs who, as part of their religion (males) wear turbans. They have sought and been granted an exemption so they may wear their turban when being photographed for their DL photo.

All Smith wants is to have his DL photo with his pirate hat on. ICBC doesn't require Sikhs to remove their turbans for a DL photo why does he have to remove his religious head wear ?

The government has gone so far as to allow an exception of wearing motorcycle helmets to Sikhs wearing a turban. How can a cloth wrapping protect the skull of an occupant of a motorcycle ? How can a religious belief extend to exempting the use of a safety device ?

What's good for the goose should be good for the Pastafarian.

It's the principle of the thing.

If a space ship landed tomorrow and the occupants outlined how 2000 years ago one of their ships crashed on earth and a guy named Jesus survived the crash and was treated like a divine being, but he was really only an astronaut. There goes religion, now do we remove the exemptions for religious head gear ?????

PS - I love the story photo. The CFSMBC has adopted a highway. You gotta hand it to these people....
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

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