Samaritan's Purse shoe boxes

[sunflower1]

I really like what grammaf wrote (pg.5).

It's not about "religion" so much as it is about Christian values. If there were more Christian values in the curriculum perhaps we would be turning out a more thoughtful and respectful bunch of kids.

Which Christian values would these be??

Would they be the Christian values that the Catholic Church prescribed to for many years that castrated young boys http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcccast.htm so their voices wouldn't change?

Would they be the same ones that abused (mentally, sexually and physically) the children in their care?

How about the Christian values perpetrated against blacks by white men wearing pointed white hoods and long white robes in the United States?

Or George W. Bush's Christian values with the war in Iraq?

Those are but a few that spring to mind. Somehow, to me, these do not strike me as the values I wish to be associated with. However, they are the values that were and are being taught to children today by Christian-based organizations. The brainwashing of the masses has allowed them over centuries to get away with such abhorrent practices.

And - as for teachers with strong religious beliefs ... I don't care if they are good teachers or not - their religious beliefs have no place in a publicly funded school system, where children of many religions come together to get an education. If they feel so strongly that they should be teaching their beliefs, they should be in a privately funded religious school.

I do agree, however, that the school admins should have found an alternative for the children to contribute to. Instilling generousity and humanity and compassion for their fellow human beings is a good thing - and not just because it is Christmas.

Why do churches do missionary work in impoverished countries and disaster areas? To be generous? Don't kid yourself! If people are desperate for food and shelter and the basics of life, they will suffer just about anything to get those things for their children. Same goes with the work they do with drug addicts and the homeless. They are after converts to increase their power. Spread their word by brainwashing their people.

Sorry, it's just not in me to condone organized religions.

Do not mistake that for not being religious. My kind of religion doesn't preach anything other than kindness and compassion. It does not need a leader and it does not instill fear to control its believers. It does not meet in secret or in houses of worship. It does not make me confess to contrived sins and it does not make me say any Hail Marys to absolve my sins (so that I can go out and do it with a clear conscience again and again). It does not promise me virgins if I do a suicide bombing and kill innocent people. It provides me no books written by mere mortals as doctrine to judgment (who, of course, write what they want their followers to believe and call it the word of God and Allah, etc). It does not make me take up arms against my fellow man and kill, rape and plunder to increase its wealth and power.

The only thing it forces me to do is to look in the mirror and know if I have done right or done wrong.

Gramma

Amen.

[cerealkiller]

Actually, it's the SP who wants to discuss religion in the form of indoctrination. Their web site clearly states that. The e-mail response CC got is in direct contradiction to their declared goal to spread the good news of jesus christ. Again, since pamphlets are completely useless, no matter what language, how is that done?
Still wondering though, every 4 seconds a child dies of starvation. 28,000 every day! The ones that are saved through food, medicine and shelter do not need stories of miracles, they need just that: food and medicine.
Let me ask a direct question: how many of you were capable of saying that the easter bunny is not real when they were 3 years old? How many of you had that incredible maturity to make that decision? I venture to say none. I certainly did not. Now multiply that by the additional hardship of hunger and desease. How many children do you think can clearly think and make a judgement if the god that sent all the gifts and food is not real? Again, I venture to say none. They are just happy to survive, no matter where the things come from. If they are told they received the gifts and food because of the mercy of the allmighty, they'll swallow it hook line and sinker. They would believe anything they are told and do anything they are asked just to get more food. It's called survival. Hard for us to imagine, we have all we want (most of us anyways) but when you are fighting for your life, you are open to anything and vulnerable. Prostitution is a prime example. The religious organizations know that and take full advantage of that situation. And that should be rejected, no matter what your belief is!

well said gramma!

[cerealkiller]

This from a christian web site in Canada:
http://www.anglicanjournal.com/issues/1 ... verlooked/
Though Christian churches and other faith communities make up about 40 per cent of the 75,000 registered charities in Canada, these were virtually ignored by a panel reviewing charities in Canada. The government appointed panel devoted almost all its attention to the other 60 per cent of charities and 100,000 organizations in the non-profit sector.

So 60% of all charities are not religious at all.

[zzontar]

I too, am done with this thread... as I've stated before, I've heard many instances where people said it was their faith in times of hardship that kept them going, I've never heard someone say it was the fact that their miserable life is all they have to look forward to, and then you die and rot away and that's it that's kept them going.

Even if there is no God, I see nothing wrong with giving someone hope and comfort whereas without there would be none.

For those that think Bush invaded Iraq because God told him to, and priests abuse boys because they're religious, give your heads a shake... how many of you ever go see a doctor... you know they're members of the medical association, and there are many doctors who belong to this association who've been charged with sexual assault, and don't give the cheesy reply that you HAVE to see a doctor, you know damn well you probably don't give that a second thought when you see one.... do you think they learn in med school to abuse their patients, or is it the individuals decision... same thing IMO... doing something bad and saying you're doing it in the name of God doesn't make God any worse than me doing something bad and saying it's in the name of atheism makes atheism responsible.

If the atheists have their way and the program gets dropped and nobody steps in to fill the void, then the fact that the kids get no gifts and no hope would be a terrible shame, but at least the atheists can be proud of a job well done.

[cerealkiller]

One can only read in wonderment and shake the head in disbelief.
Seldom have I experienced anyone so far removed from reality. You are so far off the mark that's not even funny anymore!
Yes, there are doctors who abuse patients but they don't pretend to do god's work and be moraly and ethically superior. Nobody blames god for it, the blame is solely on the priests or other clergy. But to use the guise of christianity and religious authority to abuse children is despicable.
Currently 11,000 lawsuits against churches and priests in the US alone.
How many doctors and teachers? Please post any sexual abuse case done in the name of or under the mantle of atheism. I will gladly revise my opinion.
Abuse by religious clergy is so rampant that it does not even make headlines anymore. But keep defending, deflecting, and ignoring; you are a dying breed and that's a positive for the common good of humanity.

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature." [Albert Einstein,_The World as I See It_]

[zzontar]

OK, one more... hopefully... ck, are you saying no atheists are guilty of sexual abuse because they don't say they do it under the name of atheism? Or do you think it makes the crime any less horrible if they're not a priest? ANY position of trust can be abused... you hear about sexual abuse cases all the time, why don't you call the local police station and ask them how many sexual assault cases in the valley were by priests or non-priests... wow, you say priests have the high and mighty attitude, look in the mirror.

[cerealkiller]

There is no point in going on with any kind of debate if you don't read what I write.
I give you a simple challenge: You find articles where sexual abuse and atheism are linked and I find sites where sexual abuse and religion/church/priests/clergy are mentioned at the same time.
Let's see what you can come up with. Back to you.

[Yellow Sprinkles]

Separation of Church and State = Separation of Religion and Tax Revenue = Separation of Religion and Public School

PERIOD

Religion has no place in public school. If you want your child's education to include a religious component, then send them to private school. If you can't afford that, then pray harder.

Maybe if this campaign was actually about giving for the sake of giving, instead of giving for the sake of recruiting more Jesus-Lovers, then the fact that it was organized by a religious organization would not have even been noticed.

[zzontar]

There is no point in going on with any kind of debate if you don't read what I write.
I give you a simple challenge: You find articles where sexual abuse and atheism are linked and I find sites where sexual abuse and religion/church/priests/clergy are mentioned at the same time.
Let's see what you can come up with. Back to you.

So you want me to find out how many people who were charged with sexual assault were atheists? This is a simple challenge? How about I find out how many had brown hair while I'm at it.

If you think all atheists don't commit sexual assault because there's no website stating the numbers then you're waaaaaaay out to lunch.

[sunflower1]

Thanks for the clarification CarMa but I think you know what I'm getting at. It's easy to send money but the shoebox program I thought was a lot of fun on both ends. I'm just sorry to see it go.

Just to let you kow, I do read your posts, you state that the shoe box campaign is fun where the kids don't have to bring money. So who paid the 7$ per box? Who organized the campaign? Did "they" pay the 7$ per box? And that is the minimum requested, the web site states, "please send at least 7$ per box".

And if you really want to discuss it, how many Castaneters have been sexually assaulted by a Priest? I was. When I was 9. I wasn't the only one in our small town. Then he was transferred to Kitimat. He did it there too. Then he got transferred to Prince George, he did it there too, but finally the Church had to do something tangible about it and not just send him on to other poor victims. I think he got sent overseas. Not sure. Actually, I think he retired. And if you want his name - I can post it for your clarification. Just in case you don't believe me.

[Fancy]

Sunflower, get a grip. Start using the quote feature more often.

you state that the shoe box campaign is fun where the kids don't have to bring money.

No I did not.

Just to let you kow, I do read your posts

Obviously not.

And if you really want to discuss it

No I don't, and did tell you I will not debate religion. End of discussion for me. edited for spelling

[sunflower1]

Most of the organizations mentioned require financial donations. The shoebox program was a tangible gift that the students could participate in.

didn't even know kids had those UNICEF boxes anymore

Too many problems with them on Halloween night I had heard.

FYI - maybe that's why I thought you said there was no money (financial donation) involved with the gift boxes.

You also said that your children have in the past contributed to the boxes and really enjoyed it. They still can, but they will have to send 7$ with the box to get it there.

[cerealkiller]

There is no point in going on with any kind of debate if you don't read what I write.
I give you a simple challenge: You find articles where sexual abuse and atheism are linked and I find sites where sexual abuse and religion/church/priests/clergy are mentioned at the same time.
Let's see what you can come up with. Back to you.

So you want me to find out how many people who were charged with sexual assault were atheists? This is a simple challenge? How about I find out how many had brown hair while I'm at it.

If you think all atheists don't commit sexual assault because there's no website stating the numbers then you're waaaaaaay out to lunch.

I wasn't asking how many atheists are charged with sexual assault, nor did I ask how many christians were. I asked you to find any information of sexual assault linked to atheism (organization, club, whatever). I found almost 5 million web sites about sexual assault by church clergy.

And you still don't get it. It really does not matter how many christians or heathen commit sexual assaults. (If we go mathematically, 80% of Canadians are declared christians. That means on average 80% of all sexual assaults are committed by christians)
These clergy weren't just ordinary citizens. They disguised themselves as a representative of your god, they claimed an authority position in an allegedly morally and ethically clean organization. Then the crimes were covered up for decades and countless unnecessary victims emerged. And not just catholics, mormons, united church, baptists, you name it. All the good fathers who work for the invisible entity and tell us that we are all sinners!
Despite all the mess religion has caused for thousands of years, it is still taboo to critizise anything to do with religion and it's abberations as we can see on this board.
But we are waaaay off topic here. So lets get back on track.

[cerealkiller]

sunflower, I am terribly sorry about your ordeal! And kudos to you for coming forward and giving all those bible thumpers a little taste of reality!
Obviously this epidemic is still not taken seriously enough.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat ... 55,00.html
only religion gets away with this shiite!

[sunflower1]

Thanks CK.