Religious hypocrisy

[cerealkiller]

Yes, organized religion is very human. That is the entire point. All the religious scriptures are of human origin, with all the cruelty and bigotry only humans are capable of.
You say that compassion is not innately human. That would mean that "love thy neighbor like yourself" is totally against human nature. It's not doable for a slew of reasons. Human nature dictates like greed, jealousy, power etc. Bad behaviour will not go away, there will always be a minority who disregard morals, conscience and decency. Secular laws are supposed to keep these people in line.
The problem with ORGANIZED religion is that masses adhere to dogmatic
principles that have very little application in today's world. In addition, many of these scriptures compell or inspire to do the most inhumane acts imaginable. I have posted many examples from all books of faith. Dismissing large parts of these scriptures and clinging to the parts that are individually acceptable is like ignoring half a math book in school or dismissing all secular laws that are not convenient to the individual.
The hypocrisy I am writing about is about the theists who claim to be moraly superior and believe in god's laws. If that is the case, no religious person would be in jail (0.2 % of inmates are atheists in the US) and only atheist women would have abortions. That is clearly not the case. Atheists don't claim to have a monopoly on decency and morals. We have shortcomings like every other human, but at least we don't pretend to be holier than thou.

[zzontar]

So you go to an American jail, and 998 out of 1000 inmates are religious? Seems pretty far fetched to me... here's what I found:

6.25 billion people overall
25 million criminals overall (2/3 theist, 1/3 atheist)
0.4% population are criminals

5.25 billion theists
16.6 million theist criminals
0.32% of theist population are criminals

1 billion atheists
8.3 million atheist criminals
0.83% of atheist population are criminals

Therefore atheists are 262% more likely to be criminals than theists.

You'll never get accurate numbers in this case because inmates can lie about being religious and some might consider going to church once as a kid to be religious.

You say the religious are saying they are holier-than-thou and then you try to prove that atheists are holier-than-thou... the irony is so rich.

[eMeM]

I agree with many of your points. I can't argue the fact that most people are hypocritical, etc. My issue is that you paint a picture of religious people that should apply to ALL. Everyone is hypocritical at times. Everyone is guilty of saying one thing and doing another. Everyone is guilty of putting themselves first or considering their needs more important or better justified than others.
Yes, terrible crimes have been committed in the name of God. Terrible crimes have been commited in the name of self interest as well. Power hungry, evil murderous men DO NOT need religion to justify their acts. A few recent examples: Hitler, Milosovich, Hussein, Pickton. These men all had their own reasons for the horrors they committed and to my knowledge God was not at the top of their lists. If I am wrong, I apologize. However the details are not the issue, the point is highlighted above and I'm sure there are many other examples that I have failed to mention.
If belief in or fear of God is going to be the difference between someone blowing away a bunch of people in a mall while I'm out shopping, then so be it. If belief in God gives people hope for the future and a will to go on, then so be it. As long as they're not hurting anyone then they can go right ahead and pray to whatever god they choose. Same goes for everyone else and the lifestyles they lead. If you're not hurting others then do what you want.
Put simply, my point is this:
All people are capable of doing atrocious things and many people with different beliefs are guilty of doing atrocious things. To place blame solely on religious people is absurd to say the least. To come to forums to "shake things up" is your perogative, but keep this in mind: The one and only thing some poeple have to cling to is their faith, if you destroy that for them they may end up going off the deep end and doing something they otherwise would not have done.

[cerealkiller]

These are the statistics from the Research Analyst of the Federal Bureau of Prisons after responses from over 74,000 inmates in the US.
http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

it's all there zzontar for everybody to read...

Here is an example of holier than though, just from today:

Still, some Catholic groups in the United States have called for a boycott, fearing even a diluted version of the book might draw people to read the bestselling trilogy. (Oh nooo! Children's fantasy books!!!!)
The Vatican newspaper said the film and Pullman's writings showed that "when man tries to eliminate God from his horizon, everything is reduced, made sad, cold and inhumane".
http://www.reuters.com/article/entertai ... 4920071219
So now we know that people who don't believe in god are sad, cold and inhumane! That is the kind of hatred and that is spewed from organized religion! But you keep defending; I keep exposing!

[CoffeeCanuck]

So now we know that people who don't believe in god are sad, cold and inhumane! That is the kind of hatred and that is spewed from organized religion! But you keep defending; I keep exposing!

Yawn

~D

[eMeM]

The following definition of Atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools.

“Your petitioners are Atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.

An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.
He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”

Am I the only one that thinks CK doesn't seem to want to "understand" his fellow man? That he's hellbent on ridicule, shame and confusion? Certainly doesn't sound like "understanding and loving" his fellow man. WOW TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY

[eMeM]

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/

For your reference, so you know I'm not just pulling this out of my *bleep*.

[CoffeeCanuck]

Am I the only one that thinks CK doesn't seem to want to "understand" his fellow man? That he's hellbent on ridicule, shame and confusion? Certainly doesn't sound like "understanding and loving" his fellow man. WOW TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY

Give it up mm, most of 'us' have. It's always the same song, just a different tune.

~D

[zzontar]

mm34 wrote:

Am I the only one that thinks CK doesn't seem to want to "understand" his fellow man? That he's hellbent on ridicule, shame and confusion? Certainly doesn't sound like "understanding and loving" his fellow man. WOW TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY

I think it's apparent to most by now that ck does want to understand his fellow man, as long as his fellow man isn't religious... if you're religious, out comes ck's one brush for all again... and again... and again... CC said it best when he said... "Yawn."

[steven lloyd]

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. (Winston Churchill)

That is a great quote Coffee, I just have to applaud you on finding that. Fanatic: inspired by intense, uncritical devotion; aka, extremism: limited and inflexible in thinking, located at only one end of a range. Yup, great find.

[cerealkiller]

Thank you for contributing to some entertainment on these threads.
I actually sympathize with the few posters here. If you run out of excuses and deflections about the message, go after the messenger. Simple and yet so transparent.
So the thread "Religious Hypocrisy" turns into a CK thread and has a recurring theme.
CK: 85% of all abortions are performed on women who believe in god.
A: That is perfectly normal according to the overall numbers.
CK: Shouldn't these women go with the 5th commandmend and therefore only non religious women should have abortions?
A: Uhhh yeah but CK is spreading hatred; he is vile, inhuman, godless, he lumps us all together...
CK: I was only posting a statistic
A: CK spreads hatred; he is vile, inhuman, godless and lumps us all together
CK: Only 0.2% of the prison population in the US are Atheists
A: That is not true, it can't be
CK: Here is the link to the Bureau of Prisons with the numbers
A: CK spreads hatred; he is vile, inhuman, godless and lumps us all together



"...truth is great and will prevail if left to herself; that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them." Thomas Jefferson

[Big ned]

I can quickly give you a reason why your statistics don't stack up cereal. Belief in God doesn't equate to Christianity. You quote the ten commandments and then equate that to a belief in God. There are many people out there that don't subscribe to any religion and still believe in God.

I might just point out that you are validating MM's post with you usual behavior.

[zzontar]

Hmmmmm... so you believe that roughly 333 out of 1000 people are atheists, yet in jails only 2 out of 1000 are atheists... seeing as talk is cheap, why wouldn't they say they're religious seeing as religion gets used so much as an excuse to get away with crimes... this is what YOU'VE been saying forever... I guess you're not quite as smart as 998 out of 1000 prisoners.

[cerealkiller]

Here is a prime example of christian love and repentance:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-l ... money.html

"They're acting very worldly for a spiritual organization," Stack told CBC News.
"They've transferred the title out to new corporations with the money they've raised. So instead of raising money to give to victims, they raised money to protect their own property."

Keep on tithing sheep, keep on tithing....

[CountryAtHeart]

I can quickly give you a reason why your statistics don't stack up cereal. Belief in God doesn't equate to Christianity. You quote the ten commandments and then equate that to a belief in God. There are many people out there that don't subscribe to any religion and still believe in God.

I might just point out that you are validating MM's post with you usual behavior.

Exactly. CK already knows that while I do have a belief in God, I do not believe Him to be what organized religious prescribes Him to be.
So, although I am a believer, I am not a Christian per say.