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Religious hypocrisy
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CoffeeCanuck
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cerealkiller wrote:eyepop wrote:zzontar wrote: funny how he'll say the religious are brainwashed.
cereal brainwashed??
he's the brainwasher!
the washer or the washed????
tikbor, I know Mr. Schroeder and he is a friend of my wife. Very nice guy for sure, just misled like so many. I would love to have an open discussion with him, if you can arrange something, I am game!
CC, where do I start?? You for example, are a horrible sinner according to bigned. You believe in the same god, yet his doesn't want us to drink coffee and tea. Seems to me you like coffee. Der ya go, you are an outcast and will go to coffeehell!
LOLOL...ok I do like that emoticon!
Ck, as much as I can appreciate your passion for what you 'dont' believe in, I just get weary of you saying the same thing over and over and over again untill my head is spinning, I have to take some tylenol and lay down with a wet cloth over my forhead! Even now I'm wondering why I'm even resonding to this, because it certainly wont change anything.
There are all kinds of different faiths and beliefs. I do not share a lot of the beliefs as the Mormans, Catholics or JW's, just as they dont share my beliefs. So what. As I've repeatedly said, all of us will one day be surprised at how little we really do know. I tend to shy away from any faith that says their faith is the only way to God and heaven.
I truly believe you have more than made your point. You are against organized religion, church doctorines etc. I get it, as do most others. You are not going to change our minds and I doubt we will change yours, so where does that leave us?
I really would be interested in you having a friendly sit down with Pastor Tim. Please, someone arrange it and video tape it...please!
~D
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zzontar
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cerealkiller wrote:
Wow... I used to go to a United Church, none of this was mentioned to me, nor did I have to wear magic undies... but will ck ever understand that? Nooooooooo, it's religion so it MUST be all bad! And then he'll come back saying he doesn't roll everyone into one ball, and then he'll roll everyone into one ball, then someone will point out he rolls everyone into one ball, then he'll say he doesn't roll everyone into one ball, then he'll roll everyone into one ball...... I think everyone gets the picture... well, everyone except one...
And then we are told not to have sex before marriage, not to 'choose' to be gay, eat certain foods (or not eat certain foods) on certain days, we should be killed if we work Saturdays and on it goes. And we are told that we are all sinners on a guilt trip and not worthy!
Wow... I used to go to a United Church, none of this was mentioned to me, nor did I have to wear magic undies... but will ck ever understand that? Nooooooooo, it's religion so it MUST be all bad! And then he'll come back saying he doesn't roll everyone into one ball, and then he'll roll everyone into one ball, then someone will point out he rolls everyone into one ball, then he'll say he doesn't roll everyone into one ball, then he'll roll everyone into one ball...... I think everyone gets the picture... well, everyone except one...
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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CoffeeCanuck
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cerealkiller
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Good for you CC, shying away from organized faith.
zzontar, united church does not have magic undies to sell and you are allowed to drink tea as far as I know. The principles are the same.
I don't care if I can change someone's mind, this is a discussion forum and I am posting my opinion like everybody else. Do you want me to go away because I am inconvenient and I attack your belief system? Sure you do! Good luck on that, include that in your prayer...
I'll answer with the words of Dawkins and and exerpt from Douglas Adams in the same book: "The God Delusion"
A widespread assumption, which nearly everybody in our society accepts - the non religious included - is that religious faith is especially vulnerable to offence and should be protected by an abnormally thick wall of respect, in a different class from the respect that any human being should pay to any other. Douglas Adams put it so well, in an impromptu speech made in Cambridge shortly before his death:
Religion.... has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, 'Here is an idea or a notion that you are not allowed to say anything bad about; you are just not. Why not? Because you are not!
If someone votes for a party that you don't agree with, you are free to argue about as much as you like, everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If someone thinks taxes should go up or down, you are free to have an argument about it. On the other hand, if someone says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say 'I respect that'.
Why should it be that it's perfectly legitimate to support the Labour Party or the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of windows - but to have an opnion about how the Universe began, about who 'created' the Universe...no, that's holy!
We are used to not challenging religious ideas but it's very interesting how much of a furore Richard creates when he does it (or CK). Everybody gets absolutely frantic about it because you are not allowed to say these things. Yet when you look at it rationally, there is no reason why those ideas shouldn't be open to debate as any other, except that we agreed somehow between us that they shouldn't be."
P.S.: Anybody has the gonads to set up a public debate between Mr. Schroeder and myself? I challenge anybody!
zzontar, united church does not have magic undies to sell and you are allowed to drink tea as far as I know. The principles are the same.
I don't care if I can change someone's mind, this is a discussion forum and I am posting my opinion like everybody else. Do you want me to go away because I am inconvenient and I attack your belief system? Sure you do! Good luck on that, include that in your prayer...
I'll answer with the words of Dawkins and and exerpt from Douglas Adams in the same book: "The God Delusion"
A widespread assumption, which nearly everybody in our society accepts - the non religious included - is that religious faith is especially vulnerable to offence and should be protected by an abnormally thick wall of respect, in a different class from the respect that any human being should pay to any other. Douglas Adams put it so well, in an impromptu speech made in Cambridge shortly before his death:
Religion.... has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, 'Here is an idea or a notion that you are not allowed to say anything bad about; you are just not. Why not? Because you are not!
If someone votes for a party that you don't agree with, you are free to argue about as much as you like, everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If someone thinks taxes should go up or down, you are free to have an argument about it. On the other hand, if someone says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say 'I respect that'.
Why should it be that it's perfectly legitimate to support the Labour Party or the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of windows - but to have an opnion about how the Universe began, about who 'created' the Universe...no, that's holy!
We are used to not challenging religious ideas but it's very interesting how much of a furore Richard creates when he does it (or CK). Everybody gets absolutely frantic about it because you are not allowed to say these things. Yet when you look at it rationally, there is no reason why those ideas shouldn't be open to debate as any other, except that we agreed somehow between us that they shouldn't be."
P.S.: Anybody has the gonads to set up a public debate between Mr. Schroeder and myself? I challenge anybody!
I don't try to imagine a personal God; it suffices to stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it.
A.Einstein
A.Einstein
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cerealkiller
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Here is an article in the NYT that answers the age old question about religion and morality:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magaz ... ref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magaz ... ref=slogin
I don't try to imagine a personal God; it suffices to stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it.
A.Einstein
A.Einstein
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zzontar
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Cerealkiller, do you have ANY views that are your own? I can go to any anti-religious website to get your opinion... why even ask for a debate with Mr. Schroeder when you don't realize that debating also involves listening? You keep complaining how no one can speak out against religion, well what do you think this forum allows you to do? That' seems to be ALL you ever do on Castanet, you don't seem to have any concern for anything BUT bashing religion... it's like complaining about not being able to walk as you go for a walk.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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CoffeeCanuck
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Ck, I am not shying away from organized faith. Maybe it's semantics, 
but I believe there is a place for organized religion. I personally shy away from religions that will actually say you have to belong to them if you want to get to heaven. And if you're going to argue they all say that, no they dont.
Yes, you are entitled to post your opinion as is everyone else. No one is disputing that or wishing you would go away, so quite being a silly pants!
You attacking my belief system doesn't bother me one iota because I am very secure in my faith. Here is the deal Ck, for me anyhow. You always post on the same issue, and do it in a condescending, insulting and demeanng manner. You are always going on about how God condones killing, hatred etc. Every post is the same thing, nothing new. There will always be new people on the forums, and new ones who will try to discuss their points of views which are opposite to yours, untill they too, grow weary of it all and stop posting. If I were to come on here and rant and rave about the evils of this world, be throwing out scripture, telling you continually you will go to Hell if you dont repent, etc, ect, I would probably be labled a religious nut job who needs to chill and not force my views upon others.
I believe that for many of us, as we grow in our lives and in our faith, we all have questions. My 'religion' believes that drinking alchol is wrong and that it was not truly wine back in biblical days. I dont believe that and I see nothing wrong with partaking of a glass on wine with a meal, a cold beer or cooler on a hot summers day. What is wrong to me is drinking too much to the point of drunkeness. That is 'my' belief and it doesnt matter to me to prove my point to church members or pastors. You seem to be a person that needs to hammer your point home. Ok, bully for you, but I have no need to do that.
I think what might be refreshing is maybe for you to introduce something you would like to discuss, and do so in a meaningful and non-antagonistic manner. You just might be surprised at the outcome.
I personally dont have any *ahem* gonads, however if I was living in Kelowna, I'd personally be knocking on Pastor Tims door and trying to arrange discussion between you two.
~D
but I believe there is a place for organized religion. I personally shy away from religions that will actually say you have to belong to them if you want to get to heaven. And if you're going to argue they all say that, no they dont.
Yes, you are entitled to post your opinion as is everyone else. No one is disputing that or wishing you would go away, so quite being a silly pants!
You attacking my belief system doesn't bother me one iota because I am very secure in my faith. Here is the deal Ck, for me anyhow. You always post on the same issue, and do it in a condescending, insulting and demeanng manner. You are always going on about how God condones killing, hatred etc. Every post is the same thing, nothing new. There will always be new people on the forums, and new ones who will try to discuss their points of views which are opposite to yours, untill they too, grow weary of it all and stop posting. If I were to come on here and rant and rave about the evils of this world, be throwing out scripture, telling you continually you will go to Hell if you dont repent, etc, ect, I would probably be labled a religious nut job who needs to chill and not force my views upon others.
I believe that for many of us, as we grow in our lives and in our faith, we all have questions. My 'religion' believes that drinking alchol is wrong and that it was not truly wine back in biblical days. I dont believe that and I see nothing wrong with partaking of a glass on wine with a meal, a cold beer or cooler on a hot summers day. What is wrong to me is drinking too much to the point of drunkeness. That is 'my' belief and it doesnt matter to me to prove my point to church members or pastors. You seem to be a person that needs to hammer your point home. Ok, bully for you, but I have no need to do that.
I think what might be refreshing is maybe for you to introduce something you would like to discuss, and do so in a meaningful and non-antagonistic manner. You just might be surprised at the outcome.
I personally dont have any *ahem* gonads, however if I was living in Kelowna, I'd personally be knocking on Pastor Tims door and trying to arrange discussion between you two.
~D
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CoffeeCanuck
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zzontar wrote:CC, I can guarantee you that a discussion between the two would be useless... a debate with an extremist of any sort is just an excercise in futility.
Ah, but would it be a discussion or a debate? The two are quite different. When one debates, he is doing all he can to prove his thought is the right one. When one discusses, he listens, see's the other persons pov and can understand, even if he may not agree.
~D
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Nebula
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zzontar wrote:CC, I can guarantee you that a discussion between the two would be useless... a debate with an extremist of any sort is just an excercise in futility.
But in this case it would be a debate between two extremists, which would prove most interesting.
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they did not use reason to arrive at.
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zzontar
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writerdave wrote:zzontar wrote:CC, I can guarantee you that a discussion between the two would be useless... a debate with an extremist of any sort is just an excercise in futility.
But in this case it would be a debate between two extremists, which would prove most interesting.
I'd bet it would be more predictable than interesting.
They say you can't believe everything they say.