Is God alive still...especially in today's society?

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

And my point is, if there truly is a downturn in attendance, etc., perhaps part of the reason is that more people have decided there is nothing to worship.

Ahhh ic.
Possible...
I think the information highway explenation makes the most sense so far. and that might have something to do with the type of conversion you are talking about.

[Nebula]

I wouldn't call it a conversion. More like a realization.

[zzontar]

And my point is, if there truly is a downturn in attendance, etc., perhaps part of the reason is that more people have decided there is nothing to worship.

This could, in turn, be the reason for the spread of moral decay... not saying you have to be religious to have morals, but the downturn in attendance does seem to be coinciding with a decline in morals.

[Nebula]

And my point is, if there truly is a downturn in attendance, etc., perhaps part of the reason is that more people have decided there is nothing to worship.

This could, in turn, be the reason for the spread of moral decay... not saying you have to be religious to have morals, but the downturn in attendance does seem to be coinciding with a decline in morals.

Again, that is based on perception and one I surmise not shared with those who do not worship.

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

And my point is, if there truly is a downturn in attendance, etc., perhaps part of the reason is that more people have decided there is nothing to worship.

This could, in turn, be the reason for the spread of moral decay... not saying you have to be religious to have morals, but the downturn in attendance does seem to be coinciding with a decline in morals.

Again, that is based on perception and one I surmise not shared with those who do not worship.

Wait a minute...I do not worship, yet see the same deline in moralistic value in society.

[Nebula]

And my point is, if there truly is a downturn in attendance, etc., perhaps part of the reason is that more people have decided there is nothing to worship.

This could, in turn, be the reason for the spread of moral decay... not saying you have to be religious to have morals, but the downturn in attendance does seem to be coinciding with a decline in morals.

Again, that is based on perception and one I surmise not shared with those who do not worship.

Wait a minute...I do not worship, yet see the same deline in moralistic value in society.

Quite right. My previous statement was worded rather badly and was obviously taken the wrong way. In fact, now that I read it again, I see that I too believe morals in society have taken a nosedive.

What I meant to say is that those who do not subscribe to a religion (ie: are not religious) would not necessarily share the view that a decline in morals and a decline in church attendance/whorship are linked.

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

And my point is, if there truly is a downturn in attendance, etc., perhaps part of the reason is that more people have decided there is nothing to worship.

This could, in turn, be the reason for the spread of moral decay... not saying you have to be religious to have morals, but the downturn in attendance does seem to be coinciding with a decline in morals.

Again, that is based on perception and one I surmise not shared with those who do not worship.

Wait a minute...I do not worship, yet see the same deline in moralistic value in society.

Quite right. My previous statement was worded rather badly and was obviously taken the wrong way. In fact, now that I read it again, I see that I too believe morals in society have taken a nosedive.

What I meant to say is that those who do not subscribe to a religion (ie: are not religious) would not necessarily share the view that a decline in morals and a decline in church attendance/whorship are linked.

Ahhh Ic.
It is an interesting thought though...religion reinforcing good moralistic views which diseminated to society as those interacted with others.
Now with less worship, hence folks are not reminded what is right and wrong...
Interesting.

[Nebula]

I believe all of the right/wrong arguments can be taught without the need for fables to back the arguments with.

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

I believe all of the right/wrong arguments can be taught without the need for fables to back the arguments with.

You sir, would not last long in the middle east!
LOL
I hear you. It just seems that religion in church (temple...etc) is dying, and quickly. In the last couple of decades.

[pat1167]

[What I meant to say is that those who do not subscribe to a religion (ie: are not religious) would not necessarily share the view that a decline in morals and a decline in church attendance/whorship are linked.

Some of those who do subscribe to a religion (me) do not think the two are linked either. I think the decline in moral values is not just outside the church (as infered by the general thread, not you in particular), it includes both church attendees and non-religious persons. Like pop singers that call themselves Christian to the press and make videos for MTV with minimal clothes on. And kids that go to my son's youth group and smuggle in a few doobies and some liquor (my son guilty but not alone in some cases).

[Big ned]

Good discussion you guys. Nice to see one without having to bash each other over the head.

I see the morals in society declining as well. I think a lot of it has to do with parents who feel their children should be left to their own devices because they have the right to make choices and choose their own path.

Parents need to be involved in their childrens lives right through until they leave the home and beyond. Religion does provide guidelines of good vs. evil and how one should behave.... You don't need organized religion per se. But kids will act to benefit themselves and for quick self gratification rather than long term peace and happiness almost every time. Without and adult to point out the repercussions of some of their actions...they will be in sad shape by the time they hit their twenties.

[Nebula]

Good discussion you guys. Nice to see one without having to bash each other over the head.

I see the morals in society declining as well. I think a lot of it has to do with parents who feel their children should be left to their own devices because they have the right to make choices and choose their own path.

Parents need to be involved in their childrens lives right through until they leave the home and beyond. Religion does provide guidelines of good vs. evil and how one should behave.... You don't need organized religion per se. But kids will act to benefit themselves and for quick self gratification rather than long term peace and happiness almost every time. Without and adult to point out the repercussions of some of their actions...they will be in sad shape by the time they hit their twenties.

Very well put, Ned.

I was at a friend's last night and she was telling me about a phone call she got. It seems kids like to go to this particular place in town to party and it is fairly well known there is alcohol and drugs there. My friend gets a phone call from the parent of a girl, the parent wanting her daughter to go to the party but feeling better if she went with someone like my friend's son.

Would your son happen to be going to the party so my daughter could tag along? my friend was asked.

The worst part is the daughter and my friend's son are 12.

Sheesh.

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

Good discussion you guys. Nice to see one without having to bash each other over the head.

I see the morals in society declining as well. I think a lot of it has to do with parents who feel their children should be left to their own devices because they have the right to make choices and choose their own path.

Parents need to be involved in their childrens lives right through until they leave the home and beyond. Religion does provide guidelines of good vs. evil and how one should behave.... You don't need organized religion per se. But kids will act to benefit themselves and for quick self gratification rather than long term peace and happiness almost every time. Without and adult to point out the repercussions of some of their actions...they will be in sad shape by the time they hit their twenties.

Very well put, Ned.

I was at a friend's last night and she was telling me about a phone call she got. It seems kids like to go to this particular place in town to party and it is fairly well known there is alcohol and drugs there. My friend gets a phone call from the parent of a girl, the parent wanting her daughter to go to the party but feeling better if she went with someone like my friend's son.

Would your son happen to be going to the party so my daughter could tag along? my friend was asked.

The worst part is the daughter and my friend's son are 12.

Sheesh.

Well...that would not have happened when I was growing up. So this does show some poor choices on parents behalf...But how has society changed so much to cause this...in such a short period of time. I mean really...think about it. When I was growing up...things were so drastically different than now. This would not of been considered, because 12 is just too young. But now it is ok? What has changed these parents in the last couple of decades. I was thinking that lack of worship might be connected. It seems as though, to me, the decline in attended worship paralells alot of poor choices in our society.

[pat1167]

It is possible that the worship attendance may have something to do with it, but worship/youth groups have also changed much since I was young (sorry to do the old fogey expression). Youth used to teach morals and expectations, etc. and now they go swimming and play lazer tag. It is no differant than sending teens to the Boys & Girls Club.

They need to be taught at home. One incident with my teen landed him grounded for two weeks with no internet, cell phone, TV, or any phone at all after 10 p.m. That may not seem like much to some, but to him his whole social life drowned for two weeks.

I have also been a foster parent in the past and the kids situations are often quite unbelievable. One set of parents who lost their kids even claimed to be Christian and insisted that their kids be taken every Sunday to a certain church. They were taken away because she was a druggie (can't be too specific here) and left them wandering the streets all night. A strange set of conflicting standards.

[Big ned]

Here's my take on it (for what it's worth). My parent's generation were very strict and religious. They taught us well and were willing to dole out a little punishment ( sometimes corporal) to get the point across.

I've watched parents with young kids today (and I have young kids myself) who want to be their best friends and be as tolerant and open about what they choose. The kids learn early that if they throw a tantrum or pout, they will get what they want and when they hit the teens, the parents just get walked over.

It is a fine balance. We try to explain our decisions with our kids. Often times they don't agree and pitch a fit, but the parents should be the authority in the house. I find it best if the kids have some say in the house rules... I've been surprized at times.. they can actually be harder on themselves during family counsels that I might have been on them. You have to be fair to the kids, but they also have ( as they get older) have to be held accountable for the dumb decisions they will inevitably make. Down the road somewhere they will realize why mom and dad made that decision for them.

Hopefully once they are 18-19 they have enough life experience to go out and make decision for themselves. Of course many of the LDS young adults end up as missionaries... you'd be surprized what a change a two year mission makes in a young person when they are in the time in life where most kids are partying hard. They come back responsible adults with a real foundation for the rest of their lives.