The Benefits of Religion

[zzontar]

cerealkiller wrote:

Can anyone prove that with numbers? I can prove the opposite:
The percentage of religious Canadians is about 80%. Stands to reason thatreligious non profit charities make up 80% of ALL charities in Canada. Actually, there should be 100% religious charities because the non religious are less caring and emphatic since we are living 'in a moral vacuum'. Fact is that only 40% of all non profit charities in Canada are religious and 60% secular! Translated: the non religious care more about our fellow humans than faithfuls despite their pretensions.

Here's a quote from this site:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/poli ... 47051.html

The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.

[4real]

Katts, “Does religion do more harm than good?”

Great question.

I think the answer to the question could go either way, depending on how the individual excercises their religious belief system and how they personally feel about their religion.

Harm:

Do you feel afraid or stricken with guilt, resulting in a feeling of being lost or damned?
Are you angry or filled with hate because of your religion, maybe with a desire to harm others who don't believe what you do?
Do you ridicule others for their beliefs or lack of them, and have a general lack of respect for other people.


Good:

Are you genuinely happy, do you feel good about your choices in life?
Do you feel love for your fellow man, and have a desire to be of service helping those in need.
Do you respect others, understanding that they have the rite to believe whatever they may choose, and regardless of their understanding or choice that they are of value.



The question “Does religion do more harm than good?” ultimately depends on the person or individual and how they live what they believe or don't believe.

I personally can see how my faith has been in my life for good, I see it in my family and we are very happy.

Whether a person is religious or not has no bearing on whether I associate with them or consider them my friend. Athiest, Christian, race, sexual preferance, occupation, educated, or otherwise. I don't really care. What I care about is how I treat you, and how you treat me.

4real

[cerealkiller]

The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent)

Really? That must include us! We donate a large junk to the Christian Childrens Fund! :123:

How can that be determined? The CCF never asked us about our religious or non religious affiliation? Must be then that we are automatically staunch catholics in the books!

[Big ned]

4 real.... Excellent point and one that many have attempted to make on this forum before.

The good or bad lies within the person himself. How do you treat others is a big one I think.... are you self centered and rude to others? Do you anger easily? etc etc. You will find both in all categories of religion (or non) race, income level etc etc.

Look in the mirror and do whatever you need to do to improve yourself daily.. Only you can make you happy.

[zzontar]

cerealkiller wrote:

Really? That must include us! We donate a large junk to the Christian Childrens Fund!

May they sail it wisely.

[cerealkiller]

4 real.... Excellent point and one that many have attempted to make on this forum before.

The good or bad lies within the person himself. How do you treat others is a big one I think.... are you self centered and rude to others? Do you anger easily? etc etc. You will find both in all categories of religion (or non) race, income level etc etc.

Look in the mirror and do whatever you need to do to improve yourself daily.. Only you can make you happy.

Couldn't agree more! Good for you, and all that without mentioning god! :smt023

[pat1167]

Without a method by which rights are right always and wrongs are wrongs always, there is no consistancy of behavioural expectations. If there is no moral compass of a higher level, then man will do just what feels good which may vary from day to day and may be quite depraved at times.

Why bother to be good if you are not accountable to someone, something for your behaviour? The law is just not enough for that, you are only held accountable if caught, witnesses, sufficiently serious, etc. Without God, conscience becomes insufficient and rules transient.

As asid by modern philosopher Thomas Metzinger: "There are no moral facts. Moral sentences have no truth-values. The world itself is silent, it just doesn’t speak to us in normative affairs — nothing in the physical universe tells us what makes an action a good action or a specific brain-state a desirable one. Sure, we all would like to know what a good neurophenomenological configuration really is, and how we should optimize our conscious minds in the future. But it looks like, in a more rigorous and serious sense, there is just no ethical knowledge to be had. We are alone. And if that is true, all we have to go by are the contingent moral intuitions evolution has hard-wired into our emotional self-model. If we choose to simply go by what feels good, then our future is easy to predict: It will be primitive hedonism and organized religion."

[cerealkiller]

pat: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/mccabe02.htm :124:

[pat1167]

Its a bit long. I have printed it out and will read it when I get home before commenting too much.

One thing that jumped out at me though was his comment on the transitory nature of morals. Although society takes a transitory view; compare the 50's to the 70's for instance, TV violence, sexual morays, etc. I am not sure that makes anything "right", just common.

Get back to you later after a thorough reading.

[nolanrh]

Why bother to be good if you are not accountable to someone, something for your behaviour?

Why not steal if no one catches you?
Why not cause pain if no one knows it was you?
Why not murder if you're not held accountable?

Do you honestly need these questions answered for you?

[Big ned]

Some here think that one can be perfectly good without any outside influences.... Most of us don't need these answered.... some do it seems.

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

I am unable to decide. “Does religion do more harm than good?” or put another way, does religion do more good than harm?

There are obviously many people who are religious. Some of them are well educated and intelligent. It is quite probable that the majority of the faithful adopted their belief system from their parents but it is true that some clear-headed sober adults have become religious as a deliberate choice.

As can be seen on this forum, the faithful hang on to their belief system with the tenacity of a pit bull’s bite on a postman’s leg. Religion must endow its adherents with benefits. Belonging to a church, for example, provides a sense of community and comfort. I would like to explore further why it is that religion is so important to some people.

The various beliefs systems cannot be justified in any rational sense but this has been well hashed over in these threads. Perhaps it does not matter if your belief system incorporates ethereal winged creature and supernatural beings (or magic undies); the benefit of belief and faith seems to trump rationality.

So what benefits do you get from religion?
(Religion = belief in god or gods and the worship of same)
What benefits do you receive from attending church?


PS…. This is in no way an attempt to belittle or ridicule any one who might help to enlighten this a-religious a-theist.

What a good question!
Could it be as simple as the fact that knowone likes being alone. And to add to that, knowone likes to be alone when they die. Faith in said while you live as an insurance, if you will, for that time in life that all fear.

Also, I would like to add...that misfits in society also have this need to belong. And when knowone else will have them, they can join a club or the like...not to dissimilar to the Hells Angels for example. That excepts them for who they are, but clearly dictates their actions while they are a member.

So along this vane...I can summize that organized religion does more good, than bad, for an individual.
I'm not sure that I can say the same if the question was..."Does organized religion do more good/bad for society". Now that would be a harder question...with likely more contreversy.
Just thinking out loud...any thoughts?

[SpazmoTheMagnificent]

Without a method by which rights are right always and wrongs are wrongs always, there is no consistancy of behavioural expectations. If there is no moral compass of a higher level, then man will do just what feels good which may vary from day to day and may be quite depraved at times.

Why bother to be good if you are not accountable to someone, something for your behaviour? The law is just not enough for that, you are only held accountable if caught, witnesses, sufficiently serious, etc. Without God, conscience becomes insufficient and rules transient.

As asid by modern philosopher Thomas Metzinger: "There are no moral facts. Moral sentences have no truth-values. The world itself is silent, it just doesn’t speak to us in normative affairs — nothing in the physical universe tells us what makes an action a good action or a specific brain-state a desirable one. Sure, we all would like to know what a good neurophenomenological configuration really is, and how we should optimize our conscious minds in the future. But it looks like, in a more rigorous and serious sense, there is just no ethical knowledge to be had. We are alone. And if that is true, all we have to go by are the contingent moral intuitions evolution has hard-wired into our emotional self-model. If we choose to simply go by what feels good, then our future is easy to predict: It will be primitive hedonism and organized religion."

Hmmm...I pretty sure morals are inheirent, not a learned behavior. When most do something wrong...they feel so. When most do something right...same thing, they feel so. So I'm not sure that organized religion has much to do with morals other than reinforcing what is already there.

[pat1167]

[Hmmm...I pretty sure morals are inheirent, not a learned behavior. When most do something wrong...they feel so. When most do something right...same thing, they feel so. So I'm not sure that organized religion has much to do with morals other than reinforcing what is already there.

Sorry Spazmo, I have to disagree there. Morals are learned and often at a very young age. A two year old is the most self centred, selfish, beings out there and must learn even the basics, share, do not assault (bite) fellow human beings, talk nice, say thank you, etc. It certainly does not come naturally. By the time kids are 5-6 yrs old, the basics are usually learned, such as be kind to others, don't be selfish all the time, share, don't steal from stores, temper tantrums make you look stupid, lying gets you in trouble, look nice, take a bath, etc.

Morals may be learned from societal values or religion, but they are definitely not inherent.

[Mr Danksworth]

in my opinion Christians do not automatically have morals. Being scared of everlasting torture has nothing to do with morals. Being anxious to please a benevolent deity also does not equate to morals: It means you’re a good dog.