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Saxon

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Post by Saxon »

An issue that has been on my mind for a while now has been the understanding of others when it comes to someone who is Gay or someone who is an addict or just outside of what some class as the norm..

What I find distressing is the treatment of some of these people and the horrors they face just to get by brought on by nothing more than the ignorance of others... I have heard stories of people being made homeless because they have aids, of people being refused treatment because they are taking drugs being beaten because they are gay and on and on...

As a Christian I do not agree with same sex marriage nor will I ever...that does not mean I think myself any better than a gay man/woman neither do I have any bad feelings or contempt for them...nor am I better than a drug abuser... I myself see myself as no higher than a person living on the street in rags.

What society seems to be losing sight of is that we are all equal here... just because you may live in a big mansion with every toy under the sun does that make you better?... does it make you happier? I would say if you need all that to be happy then you have bigger issues than of which you are aware

Everyone... gay, straight, addict, infirm, black, yellow, white, tall, short, fat, thin, good looking, not good looking....whatever...lets learn to get rid of the labels that form our judgements and have one label....

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Piecemaker
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

While I agree with many aspects of your post, I have to question why you would not want someone who is gay to have equality in that they could be legally committed to a partner and have the same rights and responsibilites as a heterosexual married person. People who are gay may be outside your norm, but for them being gay is their norm. They were born that way. They deserve to be able to legally proclaim their love and protect their spouse and children, like heterosexuals can. (And should their marriage end, they should also have to pay child support, alimony and divide assests according to the divorce laws of their province or state.)
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Nebula
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Re: No label

Post by Nebula »

Saxon, while I agree with much of what you wrote, I believe you have contradicted yourself on the gay marriage issue. If no one had any labels, how could you possibly be against certain people marrying? To me, the only way you could do that is if you first attached a lable to them (in this 'gay').
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Hugh Jass
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Re: No label

Post by Hugh Jass »

One thing I hear often used in discussions like this is the word "Equality". My question is, does Equality mean treating everyone the same ? Because if that is the case, then Im not really for Equality in Society at all.
Last edited by Hugh Jass on Feb 24th, 2008, 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

While I agree with many aspects of your post, I have to question why you would not want someone who is gay to have equality in that they could be legally committed to a partner and have the same rights and responsibilites as a heterosexual married person


If two gay people want to marry then go ahead… I wont be the one to stand and disagree…Its not up to me to bless that marriage… all I am saying is it goes against my beliefs as a Christian…but that does not mean I am labelling.... I disagree with the things I see other Christians doing too.... I harbour no ill feelings towards gay people and love a gay man or woman as any other I meet

People who are gay may be outside your norm


I don’t think you know me well enough to start making statements like that


They deserve to be able to legally proclaim their love and protect their spouse and children, like heterosexuals can


As far as I am aware it is not against the law for a gay person to proclaim their love nor to protect their spouse or children


I believe you have contradicted yourself on the gay marriage issue. If no one had any labels, how could you possibly be against certain people marrying?


Not everything one is against has to have a label…. I may choose to be against something without labelling it… I may be against some things people in my family say or do but that does not mean I am labelling them....
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Crying-Angel
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Re: No label

Post by Crying-Angel »

There is a difference between using a label in a derogatory fashion and using them just to descibe someone.

However...one of the things that bothers me greatly here on the forums, and in RL are the words used against the mentally ill. Calling them Wackos and such. And people using the word "*bleep*". When you have a child who is mentally challenged that word is like a punch in the gut, because you remember the taunts on the playground "Hey re-tard".

People say we have become to PC..but in a lot of cases I call it "Showing a bit of class,"

And you don't have to agree with someone's actions to show civility. Everyone is focusing on Saxon viewpoint that he does not agree with same sex marriage, but I don't think he is saying that if he met a same sex married couple he would treat them differently. Correct me if I am wrong there Sax.
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

I guess I'm confused as you say in your first post that you "do not agree with same-sex marriage" and in your last post you say that you "wont be the one to stand up and disagree". :131:

You were also the one to use the term "norm" in your first post. All I said was that gay people MAY be outside your norm. If you are heterosexual, as I am, than gay people are outside both our norms. We are part of the majority with regard to sexual preference for those of the oppposite gender, gays and lesbians are not.

Gay people are not able to legally marry in all parts of North America. I just happen to think that a gay or lesbian couple should have the right to be married, if they want to be. Their children should be able to have two legal parents.

We probably in essence agree with each other and are debating semantics. There is indeed oppression, discrimination and marginalization of many people because of judgemental and negative labels having been bestowed upon them by the powerful and the ignorant.
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Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

I would treat them with the same respect as any other human being on this planet FB ... They may be going against my religion but many christians themselves do that... I do myself!... I am far from perfect in any way....What Im trying to get across is these people are hated by some... beaten... treated like filth and that disgusts me

I have been thinking of getting something together...to maybe get a TV short made and on TV about the plight some people have suffered and still suffer ... or perhaps a circular of some sort....everyone has a heart...each just as fragile

I would welcome any ideas on fundraising and how to go about it too :124:
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

Depending upon which specific social issue/injustice you want to feature, there may already have been such a project completed by an advocacy group that could be adapted for your purposes. There are full-length (45min or longer) presentations on homelessness, racism and homophobia that I have seen.
What is your vision?
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Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

I guess I'm confused as you say in your first post that you "do not agree with same-sex marriage" and in your last post you say that you "wont be the one to stand up and disagree".
: I would not agree but then again that really does not matter does it... so I would not stand up in church to disagree

You were also the one to use the term "norm" in your first post. All I said was that gay people MAY be outside your norm. If you are heterosexual, as I am, than gay people are outside both our norms. We are part of the majority with regard to sexual preference for those of the oppposite gender, gays and lesbians are not.
I said what some consider the norm

I purposely labelled myself as Christian in my first post as a test...
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

Piecemaker wrote:Depending upon which specific social issue/injustice you want to feature, there may already have been such a project completed by an advocacy group that could be adapted for your purposes. There are full-length (45min or longer) presentations on homelessness, racism and homophobia that I have seen.
What is your vision?


I would like to see a short portraying some of the horror I have heard of... like a young man being severely beaten because he is gay... a drug taker being turned away from a hospital even though they were in desperate need of medical assistance... someone being evicted from their home because of a disease...

cruelty
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Piecemaker
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

Saxon wrote:
I purposely labelled myself as Christian in my first post as a test...


A test of what? Did you fail or pass? BTW, anyone who reads this forum knows that you are a Christian as you make no secret of it. While I may not always agree with you, I respect that you are trying to walk the walk not just talk the talk. I do not belong to any organized religion (been there, done that), but I am a deeply spiritual person who is always seeking enlightenment and truth.
I feel very passionately about doing my part to end the inhumanity toward the marginalized. There is so much suffering in our community.

Have you searched on U-Tube for some examples of "shorts"? Unfortunately, due to the complexity of some social issues and the ignorance that abounds, a short piece may not be adequate to convey the message you want to deliver.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

Piecemaker wrote:
Saxon wrote:
I purposely labelled myself as Christian in my first post as a test...


A test of what? Did you fail or pass? BTW, anyone who reads this forum knows that you are a Christian as you make no secret of it. While I may not always agree with you, I respect that you are trying to walk the walk not just talk the talk. I do not belong to any organized religion (been there, done that), but I am a deeply spiritual person who is always seeking enlightenment and truth.
I feel very passionately about doing my part to end the inhumanity toward the marginalized. There is so much suffering in our community.

Have you searched on U-Tube for some examples of "shorts"? Unfortunately, due to the complexity of some social issues and the ignorance that abounds, a short piece may not be adequate to convey the message you want to deliver.


The test was to see wether people would focus on my beliefs on marriage more than the issue of the suffering of others... I got a quick...' while I agree"...BUT!... rather than the issue of suffering being the big thing it was more about telling me I was wrong.... perhaps it should have gone " I dont agree with you on marriage..BUT!

I think it will be hard to change the views of some... but if it helps just one person out..it's got to be worth it
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

Perhaps being denied the right to marry the one you love, and to have that marriage accepted/blessed does cause suffering for some.
As for gay-bashing and other cruelties you mentioned, don't they all begin with an attitude of superiority in some form? While being denied housing or medical treatment may be an obvious cruelty (and illegal), there are many others that are subtle yet just as hurtful. Children for example, suffer greatly from verbal abuse. Words of parents, other adults or peers have caused some to complete suicide.
The greatest cruelties begin as a small seed and bear fruit due to desentization, social learning and oppressive policies, practices and beliefs that abound in our country. No one is born racist or homophobic or discriminatory, etc.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

I know what you mean I see it all the time being just Christian....often judged guilty because of misguided perceptions

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