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Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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Piecemaker
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

And you and other males get judged for being a man (oh, yeah and a "Brit" too!)...and your wife and I for being women...and some Christians judge others who claim to be Christians as not having the Truth...and those that do not call themselves Christians are judged to be Heathens...and those who would defend the downtrodden are judged to be "bleeding-heart liberals"...and those who are overweight are judged to lack self control and to be lazy...and those who are of aboriginal heritage are judged to be...
We live in a very judgemental society and we all carry internalized judgements about others who are not the same as us. There are ways to lessen our judgements, but I'm not sure we can ever fully overcome them.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
eyepop
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Re: No label

Post by eyepop »

Saxon wrote:...all I am saying is it goes against my beliefs as a Christian….

why?

what did jesus say about same sex marriage?
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grammafreddy
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Re: No label

Post by grammafreddy »

Here's a place to start ...

http://www.canadacouncil.ca/grants/

Good luck to you!
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Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

eyepop wrote:
Saxon wrote:...all I am saying is it goes against my beliefs as a Christian….

why?

what did jesus say about same sex marriage?


The bible says a man shall take a wife eyepop...I dont think a man can be a wife...its also stated that sex between men is wrong too... but then that, as has been pointed out should not be the issue here... just as it should not be a reason for hatred or violence towards gays..
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

grammafreddy wrote:Here's a place to start ...

http://www.canadacouncil.ca/grants/

Good luck to you!


Thanks Gramma :124:
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

Piecemaker wrote:And you and other males get judged for being a man (oh, yeah and a "Brit" too!)...and your wife and I for being women...and some Christians judge others who claim to be Christians as not having the Truth...and those that do not call themselves Christians are judged to be Heathens...and those who would defend the downtrodden are judged to be "bleeding-heart liberals"...and those who are overweight are judged to lack self control and to be lazy...and those who are of aboriginal heritage are judged to be...
We live in a very judgemental society and we all carry internalized judgements about others who are not the same as us. There are ways to lessen our judgements, but I'm not sure we can ever fully overcome them.


I am not saying I never judge people because I am guilty as charged but I dont do it rashly... I will spend months and months making my mind up about people sometimes and how I think they are but I can honestly say I try not to hold those judgements good or bad against them.... we're all different with differing ways and ideas... how boring if we were not eh...being a Brit? lol... oh I know those bloody BRITS!!! lol
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Re: No label

Post by sooperphreek »

growing up in church and seeing your eager and heartfelt responses i have to say that i have a really hard time with what you portray. not necessarially a judgement on you as an individual but scepticism in your portrayal of ambivalence about what others do. church members have a hard enough time not judging themselves and driving a wedge between themselves let alone what the sinners and waywards are doing in society. what if the churches (organizations and not the individuals for the sake of not having to split hairs later) were to spend the millions of dollars within our own society and communities instead of sending the money to missionaries who are basically like political ambasadors in foreign countries who are propagating and influencing the countries from within. having went on a trip to a foreign country though a church years and years ago i have to say i came back disillusioned with what i saw and how much waste of money there was to achieve nothing except do the same thing that other churches had already done a million times. honey draws people to what we percieve of as the truth and not religious bull *bleep*. people dont care how much you know until they know how much you care. and if you cant care enough for eachother (society and your own community) then why is it a sticking point what people do that is different than what you do?
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Piecemaker
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Re: No label

Post by Piecemaker »

Many of us do not make our judgements "rashly", we make them automatically based upon our social learning and accompanying ethnocentric views. This is particularly true when it comes to those who are visibly different from us or follow a different belief system. These tend to be stereo-typical judgements.
Knowledge of this is a first step in increasing self-awareness and becoming less judgemental.

When it comes to those of our same social group, as we come to know another better, we either uphold our initial impression/judgement or change it because we realize our first opinion was incorrect.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
sooperphreek
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Re: No label

Post by sooperphreek »

and if you stand by the principles of what you strongly believe then stop believing in jesus. he was a product (through lineage) of incest, which you dont believe in principally, murder, prostitution, adultery, and i can go on and on and on. maybe that is why jesus had such a desire to suround himself with these types of people. because he himself was a by product of all these different types of people. church goers in their sanitized society and organizations cant posibly relate to what the sinners are doing because they are so busy polishing their sheen of morality. thus they feel that they are not like those sinners. i think the focus should be on who you believe in and not what you are led to believe in your society and organization.
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

sooperphreek wrote:growing up in church and seeing your eager and heartfelt responses i have to say that i have a really hard time with what you portray. not necessarially a judgement on you as an individual but scepticism in your portrayal of ambivalence about what others do. church members have a hard enough time not judging themselves and driving a wedge between themselves let alone what the sinners and waywards are doing in society. what if the churches (organizations and not the individuals for the sake of not having to split hairs later) were to spend the millions of dollars within our own society and communities instead of sending the money to missionaries who are basically like political ambasadors in foreign countries who are propagating and influencing the countries from within. having went on a trip to a foreign country though a church years and years ago i have to say i came back disillusioned with what i saw and how much waste of money there was to achieve nothing except do the same thing that other churches had already done a million times. honey draws people to what we percieve of as the truth and not religious bull *bleep*. people dont care how much you know until they know how much you care. and if you cant care enough for eachother (society and your own community) then why is it a sticking point what people do that is different than what you do?


I have no issues not judging myself... I know thats not my job... God will do that for me... I simply see myself as a sinner whom one day God will judge and thats enough...
Its a sticking point for me what others do because I feel what they do when they treat people like scum because of who they are is wrong and someone needs to take steps to stop it from happening I feel that I should be taking some steps... If I am to *bleep* about it then I should be willing to get off my butt and act!

Im sorry you had a negative experience with the missions trip... my own church did a trip a while back and those who went worked their butts of daily and lived in rough conditions helping build/dig/decorate and in general enhance the lives of those there,.. and 'in your own community'? there are people very much worse off in other countries than in this community...
Saxon

Re: No label

Post by Saxon »

sooperphreek wrote:and if you stand by the principles of what you strongly believe then stop believing in jesus. he was a product (through lineage) of incest, which you dont believe in principally, murder, prostitution, adultery, and i can go on and on and on. maybe that is why jesus had such a desire to suround himself with these types of people. because he himself was a by product of all these different types of people. church goers in their sanitized society and organizations cant posibly relate to what the sinners are doing because they are so busy polishing their sheen of morality. thus they feel that they are not like those sinners. i think the focus should be on who you believe in and not what you are led to believe in your society and organization.


You are not by any chance related to Cerealkiller are you? lol...
bdbnkr

Re: No label

Post by bdbnkr »

Judge the sin.... not the sinner.

This is a sensative subject. First I will say that I am a Christian (as most of you are probably by now aware). Second I believe that homosexuality is wrong. Third, my best friend is gay and in a long term comitted relationship with another man (and yes it leads to some interesting discussions)

I believe homosexuality to be wrong because it is referrenced as being wrong in scripture. To me this is backed up by the fact that the plumbing is not designed to allow reproduction in gay relationships. Atheists always use the example that if something is not natualistic it cannot be right. Well as a Christian it is my turn...

That being said homosexuals are human beings and deserve to be treated with as much dignity and respect as any other human. The behavior is wrong not the person. If you argue that homosexuals are entitled to have the same rights as heterosexuals I would agree. Under the law they have to. However that does not change my stance that homosexuality is wrong or the fact that I believe homosexual marrige is wrong. I would stand up and say that to people of the same sex should not be united in marriage. I do not believe it should be illegal but I also do not feel that churches or other religious organizations should be forced to endorse it.

In the same way that all of us have to fight our urges to do what feels good and choose to do what is right, homosexuals can choose not to engage in the behavior.

I stubble in my Christian walk everyday (usually multiple times). I make the wrong choices in favor of things that are easier of feel better. No one should be treated with contempt because of their behaviors. Everyone is deserving of compassion and love. I believe to treat anyone any differently is just as wrong as the behaviors in question.
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AlanH
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Re: No label

Post by AlanH »

Isn't there some big to do regarding this issue with an Anglican church splitting from the Canadian division to one in South America? I heard something on it on the radio a week or so ago. Not a big deal, but half the congregation believes Gay marriage recognition is OK, while the other half doesn't. (Not certain if it was split 50-50 though)
eyepop
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Re: No label

Post by eyepop »

Saxon wrote:
eyepop wrote:
Saxon wrote:...all I am saying is it goes against my beliefs as a Christian….

why?

what did jesus say about same sex marriage?


The bible says a man shall take a wife .... its also stated that sex between men is wrong ....


you misunderstood the question...

what did jesus say about same sex marriage?

ya know...

in the NEW testament.

and don't quote to me paul..

what did jesus say about same sex marriage that you base your CHRISTian beliefs on?
eyepop
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Re: No label

Post by eyepop »

bdbnkr wrote: First I will say that I am a Christian. I believe homosexuality to be wrong because it is referrenced as being wrong in scripture. To me this is backed up by the fact that the plumbing is not designed to allow reproduction in gay relationships..


First I will say that you are labeling yourself.

I believe marriage by octagenerians to be wrong. To me this is backed up by the fact that the plumbing is not designed to allow reproduction in octagenerian relationships.

let's sing...

if you're 'christian' and you know it...
clap your hands
if you're 'christian' and you know it..
we'd know it.


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