Death and atheists, agnostics....

[tawnylee]

In the last couple weeks, I have lost 4 people that were very close to me. I am having a very hard time dealing with their passings, and don't know where to go, or what to think.
I guess it would be easier if I were Christian, and believed in an after life... Not believing that once you pass on you go somewhere nicer, safer, and more care free is pulling on my heart strings.
Any suggestions on how to cope with death a little better when you don't believe in a higher power or afterlife?

[kgcayenne]

My condolences Tawnylee, I understand how it is to lose multiple loved ones in a short time. I believe death is a state where a person 'conscious of nothing', simply no longer in existence, no suffering, no floating about watching, simply gone, like the extinguishing of a candle. It hurts for us, but perhaps it was a welcomed relief from any suffering they had to endure. In time, your grief will ebb away to reveal you still have fond memories that will always make you smile.

[eyepop]

(do you) don't you have any sense whatsoever that the essence that makes up you is timeless? eternal?

that the part of you that is you, is something beyond physical or biological? more than the (mere) the body that you are housed in, or even the mind that chatters away when you want silence, and peace?

you have a body, not are a body...
and the mind. that's just something else YOU have.

so what is the part of you that has these things?

..and can lose these things.

i think it's the same for them.

whatever 'energy/life-force' was them,
is them.


___________________
samsara sucks

[tawnylee]

I believe that memories and special moments we have of the deceased live on, but no spirit or after life. When I die, my body dies, my brain dies. ALl that's left of me is what people remember.
That's how I see it, and as uncomforting it is, those are my beliefs.

I guess I just feel very bad for feeling selfish and wanting them to be here still. Not if they're suffering, but I'd give alot of stuff up to have them back.

[CoffeeCanuck]

Awww, I'm sorry you're going through such a rough patch Tawny.

As a believer, I of course don't believe that when our physical body/brain dies, that is it, there is nothing more. I believe our soul/spirit simply moves on to the next phase of our living, one in the spirit world, and I do believe my loved ones will be waiting for me with open arms. I lost my mom 4 yrs ago, and I can hardly wait to see her again, it gives me great comfort during the times that I'm remembering and missing her the most.

((( Hugs for ya )))

~D

[Tumult]

Love is important here...they have gone on but your love for them remains.
The most important thing in life is just that, life. Afterlife is just that, after life.
Rejoice at the love they had in life, for it is remains with you.
Take comfort in the love of those who are still here with you.
Take comfort in the love of those who send their thoughts & well wishes.

[nolanrh]

Of course the loss of a loved one is very tough. Those left behind will miss them dearly. However, don't fret about the state of the departed, you don't ever hear anyone complain about the time before they were born, do you?

[bdbnkr]

I am very sorry for your loss.

When I die, my body dies, my brain dies. ALl that's left of me is what people remember.
That's how I see it, and as uncomforting it is, those are my beliefs.

eyepop touched on this earlier... the fact that we call "my" body & brain shows that we view our physical selves as distinct from our mind/conciousness.

It is something that science has never been able to explain.

[tawnylee]

Thank you all for your sympathy/empathy.
I think the main reason I used "my brain, etc" was because as kids we're taught that this is our body, our stuff, and nobody should touch it, use it, etc, without our permission. I don't erally read any further into it than that...
I suppose if you look at it the other way, it also makes sense.

[hardnut]

I believe that when you are dead, you are dead. You do not go "someplace better," or anyplace for that matter. This belief does provide a different perspective on death than that held by those who believe in an afterlife. My solace is found in the memories of my loved ones and the part they played in my life and in the lives of the people who knew them. True, once all who knew and remember them are dead and gone, the specific memory of that person will be gone, but the great span of human history will always include that person, as it will include each of us.

I've always liked the words from the song, "Salmon Falls" by Harry Nilsson - here in part -

Each man lives far beyond his span
And rides the life of all mankind
And not until his kind is past will he
And not until you die
Will each second of your life conclude
And not until it crashes against the earth
Will a drop of rain have fallen
Not until all men are dead will you die
And life will start anew
And you will have travelled
A million times your own time.

I would love to tell you that time heals the pain of loss, but it doesn't - it only softens it. Still, we go on - we are part of that same history as our departed loved ones and have our own destinies to fulfill.

[Ryft]

I am having a very hard time dealing with their passings . . . I guess it would be easier if I were Christian, and believed in an after life . . . I guess I just feel very bad for feeling selfish and wanting them to be here still. Not if they're suffering, but I'd give alot of stuff up to have them back.

Being Christian does not avoid that grieving sense of loss; even Christians struggle with that same selfish desire to have the departed loved ones back with them still. That struggle is present in both Christians and non-Christians alike. It is part of the grieving process and it is okay to go through it, provided you go "through it" and eventually come out on the other side with your grief having spent itself. This grief you feel simply means they meant a lot to you. As Arthur Schopenhauer sagely noted, "The deep pain that is felt at the death of every friendly soul arises from the feeling that there is, in every individual, something which is inexpressibly peculiar to him alone, and is therefore absolutely and irretrievably lost."

[Ryft]

I believe that when you are dead, you are dead. You do not go "someplace better," or anyplace for that matter. This belief does provide a different perspective on death than that held by those who believe in an afterlife. My solace is found in the memories of my loved ones and the part they played in my life and in the lives of the people who knew them.

I just wanted to make it clear that Christians (who believe in an afterlife) also find solace in the memories of departed loved ones, how they touched the lives of those who knew them, including their own. Finding this sort of solace is neither foreign to nor absent in the heart of Christians. They simply have an additional source of solace.

[Nebula]

Good post, Ryft, and welcome to the Castanet forums.

[Dolores]

In the last couple weeks, I have lost 4 people that were very close to me. I am having a very hard time dealing with their passings, and don't know where to go, or what to think.
I guess it would be easier if I were Christian, and believed in an after life... Not believing that once you pass on you go somewhere nicer, safer, and more care free is pulling on my heart strings.
Any suggestions on how to cope with death a little better when you don't believe in a higher power or afterlife?

Hi Tawneylee

I am so sorry about your recent losses but I wanted to throw something up for discussion or thought.

There was a study done once about whether or not humans had a soul and if they did, did it weigh anything. Well to make a long story short the answer is yes that the scientist that did the study felt there was a soul because his study involved weighing someone (to the gram) while they were in the process of dying. What he found was that in the final hours of someones death they lost weight at a very minute anount but at the time of death the scale tipped at an amount of 3/4 of an ounce. Now that doesn't sound like much but it happened time and time again and the weight loss was the same over and over!

So that brings to the surface the concept that if there is a small weight loss at death... What is it that is lost. The scientist accounted for sweat loss etc.

I believe that what was lost is the persons soul and if that is true then where does that soul go? Because if I believe that it exists then it MUST go somewhere and be something.

I have had far too many weird experiences in life to believe that you just die and there isn't anything else.

I think if you look deep into yourself and your daily life, those people whom you have lost surround you and make themselves known even in small ways. Think about the butterfly that you saw that landed on your daughters nose? (Just and analagy but you see where I am going with it)

I hope that you can find some peace in knowing that you will recover from this and you will be whole again.

(((((HUGS)))))) Dolores

[JonyDarko]

Maybe the weight loss was due to post mortem bowel release.

Seriously, can you post a link so I can read more about how much a soul weighs?