The New Atheism

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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zzontar
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by zzontar »

You ever think that maybe these people are just crazy? If they didn't blame it on a religion then maybe it would be their dog told them to do so, or how about blaming rock n roll music? Why would you listen to rock music when some people claimed to have killed because of it?
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Glacier
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Glacier »

soulra wrote:The small amount of good does not outweigh the bad. And you don't need religion to do good in the first place.

You don't need religion to do bad either.
Last edited by Glacier on Dec 5th, 2008, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr Danksworth
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Mr Danksworth »

recedingglacier wrote:
soulra wrote:The small amount of good does not outweigh the bad. And you don't need religion to do good in the first place.

You don't religion to do bad either.


No you don't, but it sure seems to help. Maybe it's easier to justify when you have gods on your side.

Here's a long list of violence and cruelty in the bible...."god told me to do it."
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
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zzontar
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by zzontar »

So if they all committed their evil deeds in the name of soulra, then you'd be to blame?
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Corneliousrooster »

Ever seen the movie "Frailty"????

Premise is about a man who is "the God's Hands Killer" who carries out murders with the aid of his innocent children on behalf of God.

Now what is being done by this character is wrong on sooo many levels, but if he didn't believe he was "Serving" an apparition and teaching his children to "Serve" the apparition things probably would evolve a little differently. Sometimes people use "God" as the only glimmer of good in deeds that are uniformally bad. Remove God from the equation - they are just BAD.

As "believers" you all must understand that from the outside looking in - it appears that God is "used" in the name of bad deeds quite commonly. God is also used in the name of Good Deeds commonly (as if the good deeds could not have occured without the guidance of God) These stories will never make front page news.

To me - religion is fine - but it should be kept as personal as your sex life. If you encounter others with the same interests, by all means, enjoy-participate-and share amongst yourselves. It is the soliciting of religion, the walls that are built by religion, the scare tactics of religion, the public influence of religion that bothers me. People should carry themselves as people and emit human qualities that you pride yourself in and set examples for others. To do this you should not have to reveal publicly your religion, sexuality, income level, etc... These things are private matters that should be revealed under discretion - not to advance a cause or pull sway with a group or party.
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Tumult
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Tumult »

Soulra, seizing on the exorcism story as an example of The Danger of Blind Faith seems to me, a tactic straight out of the playbook of the christian anti-Dungeons & Dragons movement of the late 80s. If you had a comic to go with it, it would be the anti-religious version of a Chick Tract. Crazy *bleep* people do crazy *bleep* stuff all the time for all kinds of stupid reasons. Maybe you could start a lobby group to have the government legislate that warning labels must be put on bibles. This incessant barrage of anti-religious propaganda is contributing to the sense of hostility in this forum. You should use your talents to promote something that you think is good.
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”
-Max Planck
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Mr Danksworth
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Mr Danksworth »

Tumult wrote:Maybe you could start a lobby group to have the government legislate that warning labels must be put on bibles.


Something like this?
Image
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RR24K
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Re: The New Atheism

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hauen Sie ab
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nolanrh
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by nolanrh »

I read through this read. Religious participants seem to feel that these "New Atheists" should not be challenging their belief systems. The arguement seems to be that atheism is so unfounded that they have no leg to stand on critizing Christianity, etc.

First of all, I want to say to all those rattling off critisms of scientific theories in this thread: Are you kidding me? Do you honestly expect the scientifically inclined members of this forum to spend the hours it takes to investigate each claim you make as to why such-and-such theory is false and write up a nice answer for you, complete with citations? Hell, the one thread I made to do just that resulted in hours of my work going completely unanswered.

The whole point of the scientific process is so that those of us that are not so inclined as to spend years of hour lives educating ourselves in a particular field and thousands of hours researching some obscure scientific topic can, with a sound mine, accept on the findings of science.

As for New Atheists critizing your beliefs. Good on them. They've come to the conclusion that your beliefs are wrong. If you don't agree, keep right on believing. But in their mind, they are trying to help. I say, the more people trying to help the better.
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nolanrh
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by nolanrh »

Tumult wrote:
recedingglacier wrote:
zzontar wrote:The first organism would also have know and have the ability to find and consume other organisms, to be able to turn that organism into energy, and to know and to know how to reproduce, all with no forefathers, previous genetics, or blueprints of any sort. How would it know to do all these things when it's just the result of lightning striking the elements?

You just have to have faith that it did. If you don't have enough faith you're dumb, stupid, and ignorant.

:hailjo:
Try NEW "Science Brand Faith"! It's logic - lee delicious! :spinball:


*facepalm* Your understanding of how science works is troubling. Science does not require you have faith regarding the first origins of life. It just advocates that until we a have theory that fits the evidence, tests and peer review we should continue looking for one. And, when we do have one, we should leave the theory open to modification based on any new evidence.

Currently there are many scientific theories competing to explain the origins of life. Science does not require that you have blind faith in any one of them. Merely that you use the scientific method in attempting to reach a conclusion.
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nolanrh
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by nolanrh »

Tumult wrote:The materialist thinks because he personally has found the positive evidence for God's existence wanting, that he has then proved the negative conclusion-- that God does not exist.l


Most atheists do not hold this to be true. They assert that God likely does not exist. There is a big difference.
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JonyDarko
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by JonyDarko »

zzontar wrote: feel free to show solid scientific evidence how all life evolved from the primordial soup.


http://www.hhmi.org/research/investigators/szostak.html"Dr.Szostak's research"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg "easy explanation and great music "

Pretty solid scientific evidence imo. Makes a whole lot more sense then "primordial soup" or lighting striking a mud puddle and especially making people out of dirt and drift wood.

The best part is the supernatural is left out of the equation.
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Mr Danksworth
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Mr Danksworth »

Tumult wrote: This incessant barrage of anti-religious propaganda is contributing to the sense of hostility in this forum. You should use your talents to promote something that you think is good.


It's not hostile, its facts. Sorry you have a problem with them. I'm not going to stop because you feel slighted. I'm so sick of this whiny 'stop persecuting me' B.S. If your 'faith' is so strong, why are you so worried about little ol' me? Surely the all powerful, effervescent god can't be harmed by a few questions...
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Tumult
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Tumult »

nolanrh wrote:
Tumult wrote:The materialist thinks because he personally has found the positive evidence for God's existence wanting, that he has then proved the negative conclusion-- that God does not exist.l


Most atheists do not hold this to be true. They assert that God likely does not exist. There is a big difference.


I think this statement is written in reference to "The New Atheist" not all atheists.
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”
-Max Planck
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Tumult
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Re: The New Atheism

Post by Tumult »

soulra wrote:
Tumult wrote: This incessant barrage of anti-religious propaganda is contributing to the sense of hostility in this forum. You should use your talents to promote something that you think is good.


It's not hostile, its facts. Sorry you have a problem with them. I'm not going to stop because you feel slighted. I'm so sick of this whiny 'stop persecuting me' B.S. If your 'faith' is so strong, why are you so worried about little ol' me? Surely the all powerful, effervescent god can't be harmed by a few questions...


It's not about me feeling slighted or persecuted, it's about trying to have a forum atmosphere where people want to participate. I don't have a problem with facts, it is the way you present information. You may not consider your participation as hostile but I think the poll disagrees with your perception of things. I don't rely on "faith" for my understanding of things. I am not worried about you, I am concerned about the forum and I am sick of this angry 'religion is all bad' B.S. I think the people on this forum are well aware that yes, many evils have been perpetrated in the name of God or under the banner of some religion, that bible literalism is foolish, etc. It seems you have less interest in asking questions than you do in presenting religion as a source of evil. I guess since you're "not going to stop" and you seem to feel self-righteous about this I can only offer you luck in your fundamentalist anti-religious evangelical crusade.
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”
-Max Planck

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