Who invented Christianity?

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JLives
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Who invented Christianity?

Post by JLives »

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112006/joe.htm

A fact often overlooked by historians is that Christianity’s origins are suspicious. During the entire era in which the religion purportedly emerged; another Jewish messianic movement, called the Sicarii, fought in Judea against imperial Rome. This militaristic movement interpreted –- quite logically -- that the same prophecies that the Gospels claim envisioned Jesus, actually predicted the coming of a warrior Messiah who would lead the Jews against Rome. It is unlikely that such a movement would have permitted Jesus, a multicultural and pacifistic “son of David” (Jesus’ philosophy it should be remembered contradicted the original David who was a xenophobic warrior) to have wandered about the Judean countryside teaching his followers to “turn the other cheek” to Roman authority. Further, the Gospels’ literary style is much closer to the popular Greek and Roman romances of the day -- that often featured a hero, empty tombs and resurrection scenes -- than the ascetic style of writing used throughout the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Given the above, perhaps the most natural suspects for the creation of the Gospels would have been the Roman Caesars. Certainly the most likely of the Caesars would have been the Flavian dynasty, which lasted from 69 – 96 CE, the period when most scholars believe at least some of the Gospels were written. It consisted of three Caesars: Vespasian, and his two sons: Titus and Domitian. Flavius Josephus, a Jew who was an adopted member of the royal family was their official historian and wrote War of the Jews, the history of the family’s war against the Sicarii.

Though overlooked by virtually all of New Testament scholarship, this group should be regarded as the prime suspect for the creation of Christianity because they possessed all of the requirements to have done so. They had a strong financial motivation to replace the militaristic religion of the Sicarii that waged war against them with a pro Roman Messiah cult, they were known to have a staff of intellectuals with the expertise in Judaism and philosophy necessary to write the Gospels, and they possessed the knowledge and bureaucracy required to implement a religion (the Flavians created and maintained a number of religions other than Christianity). Moreover, this royal family was the absolute rulers over the territories where the first Christian congregations began and therefore determined which literature was permitted to circulate in the area.

Further, the Flavians should be considered as the creators of the Gospels simply because the victors write history. Many of Jesus’ “prophecies” are regarding the military victories of the Flavian family. These include the destruction of the Galilean fishing villages, Jerusalem being encircled with a wall, and the leveling of the Temple, which were all “brought to pass” by Titus Flavius during his military campaign through Judea, which concluded with his destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple in 70 CE. Titus was also parallel to the Jesus of the Gospels in that he was a “son of God” -– his father had been declared a “diuus” by the Roman Senate following his death -- and he founded religions.

The Flavians are also linked to the origins of Christianity in that a number of royal family members were among the first Christians. In fact, the first Christians for whom there is any archeological evidence were members of the Flavian family. But this begs a question. Why was a cult that advocated poverty and meekness so attractive to a family that practiced neither?

The best known of the “Christian Flavians” was Pope Clement the first –- the Pope who is recorded in early church literature as having been ordained by the Apostle Peter. He is described within the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia as the first Pope about “whom anything definite is known,”[1] and was recorded by early church literature as being a member of the Flavian family. The notion that Pope Clement was a Flavian was recorded in the Acts of Saints Nereus and Achilleus, a fifth or sixth century work based upon even earlier traditions.

Titus’ niece, Flavia Domitilla, was another “Christian Flavian.” In the case of Flavia Domitilla there is extant evidence linking her to Christianity. The oldest Christian burial site in Rome has inscriptions naming her as its founder.

Thus the Flavians are linked to the origins of Christianity by an unusual number of facts. Early Church documents flatly state that the family produced some of the religion’s first martyrs and the Pope who succeeded Peter. They created much of the literature that provided documentation for the religion, were responsible for its oldest known cemetery and housed individuals named in the New Testament within their imperial court. Further, the family was responsible for Jesus’ apocalyptic prophecies having “come to pass.” Certainly some explanation seems to be required for the numerous traditions linking an obscure Judean cult to the imperial family-—connections that included not merely converts to the religion, but, if the Acts of Nereus and Achilleus are to be believed, the direct successor to Peter.

Moreover, in Caesar’s Messiah I presented an even more compelling reason to suspect that the Flavians had created Christianity. Many of the events from Jesus’ ministry seemed to have been based upon events from Titus Flavius’s military campaign through Judea. These parallels between the two “sons of God” -- Jesus and Titus -- not only occurred in the same locations, but in the same sequence. The fact that they occurred in the same order provides strong support for the premise that they were intentionally created, as there are no other examples in literature of a sequence of such clear parallels occurring accidentally.

To just list a few of the parallel experiences shared by the two “sons of God”; both Jesus and Titus’s “ministries” began with “fishing for men” on the Sea of Galilee, then encountered an individual at Gadara whose “one head” contains great wickedness that is unleashed and infects another group which then plunges into the sea and drowns. In both “ministries,” each Gadara tale is followed by the story of a son of Mary who is a human Passover lamb at Jerusalem, and then a tale of a crucifixion of three individuals that features a “good counselor” named Joseph of “Arimathea” who takes one down who miraculously survives, which is followed by the condemnation of a Simon and a sparing of a John at the conclusion of the “ministry.”

As I show in Caesar’s Messiah the point of this parallelism was to create a Roman mockery of the typological technique used in the Judaic literature of the era whereby the life of one person could “foresee” that of another. In other words, the Gospels are actually slyly indicating that the life of Jesus “foresaw” that of the “real” Messiah, Titus Flavius, the conqueror of Judea. As readers of my book may judge for themselves, the pattern of conceptual experiences between Jesus and Titus strongly suggests a Roman origin of the Gospels.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by steven lloyd »

Very interesting jenny. I did understand it to be a Roman Emperor, a Christian, who decided the dates for celebrating significant Christian events (eg. his birth and crucifixion), and because of the need to satisfy a large Pagan population had these dates closely coincide with Pagan events (eg. the winter solstice and spring solstice). I forget his name, but I would guess he was in power after the Flavians.
pj57
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by pj57 »

Just remember, ALL the religious writings were by MAN, just like you and me. And like any stories, are subject to the writers intent and others interpretation.
GOD did NOT write this stuff. All religious writings that are claimed to have come from God are "Second hand information" at best, and we all know how quickly a story changes each time its told.
The problems of the world today are ALL POWER STRUGGLES. Who is the going to be the biggest boss and control the most assets and people.

Religion has always been used to control people.

God didn't send suicide bombers!
God didn't make us all "sinners", that must confess our sins!
God didn't require our food to be blessed, or said "you can't eat that!

God did put us here to experience "life" for him/her, and to help each other, in our experiences. And when we are done experiencing, YES, we all are going back home, where we came from.

Life is supposed to be simple. Slow down and enjoy it.
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quietlywatching84
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by quietlywatching84 »

Very interesting jenny. I did understand it to be a Roman Emperor, a Christian, who decided the dates for celebrating significant Christian events (eg. his birth and crucifixion), and because of the need to satisfy a large Pagan population had these dates closely coincide with Pagan events (eg. the winter solstice and spring solstice). I forget his name, but I would guess he was in power after the Flavians.


There is a hilarious cartoon regarding this surfing around the net called "saturnia". I was going to post it for you castaneters' but youtube promptly removed the video version of it (involves a few x-rated scenes for sure).

Worth searching for, I'll try to find a link to see if it's still alive on the net.

Apparently the pagan precurser to Santa Claus was a horned monster that ate bad children or something like that.

Red and Green in christmas decorations were pagan colors of fertility, as christmas was more of that kind of holiday.

Too bad it's no more, fertility is the gift that keeps on giving if you ask me!
Silence is golden and duct tape is silver.
aspertame
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by aspertame »

love one another, be kind, be giving, be peaceful, be happy. there isn't much more to it. who can argue with that regardless of; who, what, where, why, when or how the Bible or Christianity came about?
prior to Christianity, judaism itself was a religion designed to refine a nation and peoples culture to become ultimately civilized in an era of social evolution. thus giving way to one mans pursuit to better benefit life on earth for all of mankind as we know it.
or was it one man? perhaps it could have been his 12 disciples? maybe all of israel conjured up this whole loving kindness scheme? better yet, maybe it was the roman empire! no that can't be, maybe it was the entire world! but that wouldn't make sense either because it's just too hard to accept. perhaps it's the average joe 2000 years later consisting of you and me that make the world what is it today, with the help of some good old fashioned advice from the good book.
the Bible is comprised of thousands of stories for any one person to read at their will and leisure. when you compile these stories and apply them to everyday life with the intent of being honest and true, you've essentially made the Bible the living word of God. yes, i will say it again; the transfusion between literature of the Bible and human conscience on a grand scale, is God.

any attributes or inconsistencies of christianity that a certain variety of people feel it so necessary to extract for all others to notice, was obviously put in place to expose any 1 persons true colors through, respectively, positive or negative interjections.

everything is relative.
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pj57
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by pj57 »

There is a reason for everything and it helps to do a little research and base opinions on fact instead of rant. Drives me crazy when people can operate this forum but can't manage to google anything. Maybe the reason why you keep asking the same questions over and over is because your opinion is WRONG!

This is a must watch if you want to know why we have such crazy problems in the world:
:skyisfalling:
www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
This can be seen on U tube also.
Until we see more "power of love" instead of "love of power" not much will change in this world.
Hopefully Obama is a start.
aspertame
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by aspertame »

pj57 wrote:There is a reason for everything and it helps to do a little research and base opinions on fact instead of rant. Drives me crazy when people can operate this forum but can't manage to google anything. Maybe the reason why you keep asking the same questions over and over is because your opinion is WRONG!

This is a must watch if you want to know why we have such crazy problems in the world:
:skyisfalling:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
This can be seen on U tube also.
Until we see more "power of love" instead of "love of power" not much will change in this world.
Hopefully Obama is a start.




i tried watching that zeitgeist flick and fell asleep five minutes in to it. if you want to watch something really politically charging check out blitzkrieg bop by the ramones on youtube, you'll never be the same. as fast as the zietgiest idea popped out of no where it disappeared like used cooking oil.
in my travels i've seen and heard of thousands upon thousands of charitable organizations, shelters, food banks and charitable kitchens giving food in the name of christianity to hundreds of thousands of millions each day. and there are probably tens of thousands more i will never see or hear of.
when a group of zietgeist fanatics (or any other sect for that matter) accomplishes this feat on the same scale then maybe i'll give it another try and hope that i make it past 5 minutes. no pun intended.
I'm horrible at making babies and welding. I'm working on my welding.
pj57
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by pj57 »

skip ahead to the political, financial and 911 section. The FACTS will blow you away!
aspertame
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by aspertame »

that's exactly it, the facts BLOW!

better than any fact on paper justifying the past is living here right now and contributing to society as much positive energy as possible. the owners manual to accomplishing this feat can be found at your local church, and that's a fact.
I'm horrible at making babies and welding. I'm working on my welding.
OREZ
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by OREZ »

aspertame wrote:

i tried watching that zeitgeist flick and fell asleep five minutes in to it. if you want to watch something really politically charging check out blitzkrieg bop by the ramones on youtube, you'll never be the same. as fast as the zietgiest idea popped out of no where it disappeared like used cooking oil.
in my travels i've seen and heard of thousands upon thousands of charitable organizations, shelters, food banks and charitable kitchens giving food in the name of christianity to hundreds of thousands of millions each day. and there are probably tens of thousands more i will never see or hear of.
when a group of zietgeist fanatics (or any other sect for that matter) accomplishes this feat on the same scale then maybe i'll give it another try and hope that i make it past 5 minutes. no pun intended.


:dyinglaughing: Good post, aspertame. I too have found zeitgeist to be a dog's breakfast of inconsequential red herrings.
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
aspertame
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by aspertame »

mmmmmmmmmmmmh, red herring...


:purefury:
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steven lloyd
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by steven lloyd »

aspertame wrote: the owners manual to accomplishing this feat can be found at your local church, and that's a fact.


that's sarcasm, right ?
aspertame
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by aspertame »

steven lloyd wrote:Very interesting jenny. who decided the dates for the need to satisfy a large Pagan. I forget his name, but I would guess he was powerFl.



this is sarcasm.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by steven lloyd »

aspertame wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:Very interesting jenny. who decided the dates for the need to satisfy a large Pagan. I forget his name, but I would guess he was powerFl.


this is sarcasm.


I‘m sorry, is this the post you were attempting to quote?

steven lloyd wrote:Very interesting jenny. I did understand it to be a Roman Emperor, a Christian, who decided the dates for celebrating significant Christian events (eg. his birth and crucifixion), and because of the need to satisfy a large Pagan population had these dates closely coincide with Pagan events (eg. the winter solstice and spring solstice). I forget his name, but I would guess he was in power after the Flavians.


It’s kind of hard to determine exactly what part of the quote you consider to be sarcasm they way you’ve got it all muddled up (having a difficult time with that cut & paste function, are you?). I’m wondering if you have a clear and intelligent point to make that can be responded to in kind.
OREZ
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Re: Who invented Christianity?

Post by OREZ »

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,"
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."

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