Riddle me this, Christians

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usquebaugh
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Riddle me this, Christians

Post by usquebaugh »

Why is it that so many fundamentalist Christians vote for right-wing governments? I ask, because it seems that so many of these same Christians appear to have a hate-on for any and everything that is socially democratic, and yet according to their own holy book, the early church lived a very socialistic and communal existence.

Acts of the Apostles 2.44-45

All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.


Why then does someone like Stockwell Day say that working with the socialists goes against his DNA? (I put the question to him almost a month ago, but since he has not replied, I thought I'd put ask the Christians on this board.)
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by GordonH »

usquebaugh wrote:Why is it that so many fundamentalist Christians vote for right-wing governments? I ask, because it seems that so many of these same Christians appear to have a hate-on for any and everything that is socially democratic, and yet according to their own holy book, the early church lived a very socialistic and communal existence.

Acts of the Apostles 2.44-45

All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.


Why then does someone like Stockwell Day say that working with the socialists goes against his DNA? (I put the question to him almost a month ago, but since he has not replied, I thought I'd put ask the Christians on this board.)


usquebaugh I grew up with this battle within my family. Even as a kid I could put 1+1 together, what I mean the teachings of Christ = and which political idea's and direction. Pretty simple you would think, if a ten year old kid got it. I think the answer is were fundamentalist Christianity was born southern U.S. All I know it is twisted. I would be interested to hear Stockwell Day respond if or when he gets back to you. But I will not hold my breath.
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by Big ned »

I will give you my answer to this (although technically I am not fundamentalist).

I am willing and do give freely to those less fortunate than me. The problem with giving your money to the government is that they are very inefficient in their money handling. Also, if you read carefully, it says they had all things in common. That doesn't mean you took from one hard working person and gave it to someone who was lazy and did nothing. All things in common would indictated the work load was also something they shared in common. when you give someone something for nothing, they lose self respect and become accustomed to getting without giving. The government seems to believe in that. I believe in helping those who can't help themselves, not helping those who have chosen not to help themselves. If you want a welfare society, then let the government run social programs.

Our church has a program to help those who are in difficult circumstances, but they are required (if they are able bodied) to do some kind of service either in the community, or the church provides something for them to do.
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by OREZ »

usquebaugh wrote:Why is it that so many fundamentalist Christians vote for right-wing governments? I ask, because it seems that so many of these same Christians appear to have a hate-on for any and everything that is socially democratic, and yet according to their own holy book, the early church lived a very socialistic and communal existence.

Acts of the Apostles 2.44-45

All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.


Why then does someone like Stockwell Day say that working with the socialists goes against his DNA?
(I put the question to him almost a month ago, but since he has not replied, I thought I'd put ask the Christians on this board.)


Because people like Stockwell Day have probably never read the Bible. (Maybe never read anything) I agree with you usquebaugh, the politics of the so called religious right is more than a little contradictory with what they claim to believe. Just because a person calls himself a Christian doesn't necessarily mean he has any understanding of what that really means.
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Re: this Christian

Post by eyepop »

Big hearted ned wrote: I am willing and do give freely to those less fortunate than me. Also, if you read carefully, it says they had all things in common. That doesn't mean you took from one hard working person and gave it to someone who was lazy and did nothing. All things in common would indictated the work load was also something they shared in common. when you give someone something for nothing, they lose self respect and become accustomed to getting without giving. The government seems to believe in that. I believe in helping those who can't help themselves, not helping those who have chosen not to help themselves. If you want a welfare society, then let the government run social programs.

Our church has a program to help those who are in difficult circumstances, but they are required (if they are able bodied) to do some kind of service either in the community, or the church provides something for them to do.


reading carefully it says 'they (the believers) had all things in common'...

and 'selling their (the believers') possessions and goods, they (the believers) gave to anyone as he had need.

note the period.

not a comma, no qualifier.

your church seems to have a program to help those who are in difficult circumstances IF they do some kind of service either in the community, or let the church provide something for them to do.

when you give someone something for nothing,
it's called a gift.


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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by steven lloyd »

Great question. It certainly seems to be the case but we’d have to do some quantitative research to be sure (Are you religious? Who did you vote for?). It does seem that it is the same people who oppose abortion, for example, are also the same people who oppose government spending (investment) in social programs designed to help people who are marginalized (as anyone who was born instead of aborted would be very likely to be - sorry for that truth). That old excuse of left-wing governments being inefficient with their spending is just a cop out (just look at some of the current right-wing fiascos underway). We do have the option of demanding governments be accountable – instead of just re-electing the same ones.
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by eyepop »

steven lloyd wrote: It does seem that it is the same people who oppose abortion, for example, are also the same people who oppose government spending (investment) in social programs designed to help people who are marginalized....


it does seem that it is the same people who oppose abortion,
are pro-death penalty.

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steven lloyd
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by steven lloyd »

eyepop wrote:
steven lloyd wrote: It does seem that it is the same people who oppose abortion, for example, are also the same people who oppose government spending (investment) in social programs designed to help people who are marginalized....


it does seem that it is the same people who oppose abortion,
are pro-death penalty.

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Hmmm. It does seem that way, doesn't it?
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by I Think »

Some years ago, Scientific American Magazine did an analysis of the crime rate in countries that had legalized abortion. It was found that 20 years (+/-) after abortion became legal in an area, the crime rate took a significant statistical drop. HMMM.
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by sobrohusfat »

Well Steven, you're in the feild, care to enlighten our friend here. Unless of course you're the type to let that one go by knowing full well the reasoning that connects those dots is like swiss cheese. Go ahead...
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by Glacier »

Good topic, usquebaugh.

I think it is very hard to generalize since what makes one vote a certain way can be a very complex issue. Some of the fundamentalist Christians I know are NDP supporters, but I would say the majority (especially older ones) are conservatives. The really interesting part, as I had previously mentioned on this forum, is that sometimes you have two fundamentalist Christians who agree on 99% of the issues, but one votes NDP and the other votes Conservative. The only difference is what issues each one considers important.

I remember there was a study done a few years back that showed almost the exact same percentage of Conservative voters was Christians as Liberal voters. I will have to try and dig it up.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by steven lloyd »

sobrohusfat wrote:Well Steven, you're in the feild, care to enlighten our friend here. Unless of course you're the type to let that one go by knowing full well the reasoning that connects those dots is like swiss cheese. Go ahead...


I thought he/she did get it. The results of this study (below) are so telling it should be like getting hit in the face with a frying pan. Does it really need explaining?

nibs wrote:Some years ago, Scientific American Magazine did an analysis of the crime rate in countries that had legalized abortion. It was found that 20 years (+/-) after abortion became legal in an area, the crime rate took a significant statistical drop. HMMM.
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Re: this Christian

Post by Big ned »

eyepop wrote:
Big hearted ned wrote: I am willing and do give freely to those less fortunate than me. Also, if you read carefully, it says they had all things in common. That doesn't mean you took from one hard working person and gave it to someone who was lazy and did nothing. All things in common would indictated the work load was also something they shared in common. when you give someone something for nothing, they lose self respect and become accustomed to getting without giving. The government seems to believe in that. I believe in helping those who can't help themselves, not helping those who have chosen not to help themselves. If you want a welfare society, then let the government run social programs.

Our church has a program to help those who are in difficult circumstances, but they are required (if they are able bodied) to do some kind of service either in the community, or the church provides something for them to do.


reading carefully it says 'they (the believers) had all things in common'...

and 'selling their (the believers') possessions and goods, they (the believers) gave to anyone as he had need.

note the period.

not a comma, no qualifier.

your church seems to have a program to help those who are in difficult circumstances IF they do some kind of service either in the community, or let the church provide something for them to do.

when you give someone something for nothing,
it's called a gift.

And you should read my post a little more closely.... those who were unable to do anything weren't asked to... those who were completely able bodied were asked to do something.

This is the problem with the LIberal minded. They think that the government should exist to "give gifts" to those who "chose" not to work. Well I'm sorry... with that mentality half the country would be on welfare and those who work hard for what they have would be supporting a welfare state. Even Christ asked people to do things on occassion when He gave a gift such as healing etc.

Giving money to the government for a welfare program is not the same as giving to those who you see that are in need. That is not the same thing and I hope one day you will learn that.


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Post by eyepop »

"..Christ asked people to do things on occassion when He gave a gift such as healing .."

like when?

i know jesus told some blind guy to wash in a certain pool after healing him,
i know jesus told the 'raised from the dead' lazarus' family to unbind him and let him up...
and told some lame guy to pick up his mat and scoot....

and told some others not to mention the healing he had done...

is that what you meant?

when he fed the multitudes what were the preconditions?

give to those as they have need. that covers it.


i would be proud to be considered fundamentally christian... you know, following the fundamentals of christ.

but fundamentally religious?

meh!

Matthew 25: 41-45 ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

“Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

“And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

at the very least the guy panhandling outside the liquor store...

A: ..could be jesus or a disciple. (Luke 22:35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or extra clothing, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied)

B: ..is giving one an opportunity to be generous. (so be sure to thank him!)


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Re: Riddle me this, Christians

Post by usquebaugh »

Indeed, eyepop. When Jesus told Peter, "Feed my sheep," it was not in the subjunctive, but rather in the imperative
Where oh where’d my body go?
Africa or Mexico?
Where or where’d my body go?
Where’d my body go?
Have you seen my ghost?
Staring at the ground?
Have you seen my ghost?
Sick of those *bleep* clouds

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