Riddle me this, Christians

[eyepop]

"..And you should read my post a little more closely... those who were completely able bodied were asked to do something...."

the word i saw was 'required'.


______________
should have
would have
could have

[eyepop]

Why is it that so many fundamentalist Christians vote for right-wing governments? I ask, because it seems that so many of these same Christians appear to have a hate-on for any and everything that is socially democratic, and yet according to their own holy book(s), the early church lived a very socialistic and communal existence.

indeed.

Jacob 2: 19
And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.

Mosiah 4: 26
..I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants.

Mosiah 18: 27
And again Alma commanded that the people of the church should impart of their substance, every one according to that which he had; if he have more abundantly he should impart more abundantly; and of him that had but little, but little should be required; and to him that had not should be given.

3 Ne. 12: 42.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn thou not away.


4 Ne. 1: 5
And there were great and marvelous works wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did heal the sick, and raise the dead, and cause the lame to walk, and the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear; and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men; and in nothing did they work miracles save it were in the name of Jesus....

[usquebaugh]

[Big ned]

Yes, and Christ asked the individual to do it. He did not ask that the individual give to Ceasar and hope that the money ends up where they want it to. The religious people in North America do massive amounts of giving and serving. Look up "helping hands" where ever there has been natural disasters in the last decade... these are some of the first responders (even before the government gets there) that are out helping people.

You seem to be arguing for a "socialist government" I am arguing for what Christ taught. Every individual get out and do their part.

I'm pretty sure it was Christ that said "render unto ceasar that which is ceasars" His teachings said nothing about Ceasar taking part in wealth distribution. That is why conservative religious people vote for minimalist governments. we don't want Ceasar baby sitting us or our children.

[eyepop]

ok.

[Big ned]

eyepop... That's it? I thought we had a good tete a tete going there. Oh well.

[OREZ]

Yes, and Christ asked the individual to do it. He did not ask that the individual give to Ceasar and hope that the money ends up where they want it to. The religious people in North America do massive amounts of giving and serving. Look up "helping hands" where ever there has been natural disasters in the last decade... these are some of the first responders (even before the government gets there) that are out helping people.

You seem to be arguing for a "socialist government" I am arguing for what Christ taught. Every individual get out and do their part.

I'm pretty sure it was Christ that said "render unto ceasar that which is ceasars" His teachings said nothing about Ceasar taking part in wealth distribution. That is why conservative religious people vote for minimalist governments. we don't want Ceasar baby sitting us or our children.

LOL, you're "pretty sure" it was Christ who said that? How much have you read the Bible anyways?

Right wing religious people vote the way they do for the same reason right wing atheists do, I don't think you're going to find scripture to support their agenda though.

[GordonH]

Yes, and Christ asked the individual to do it. He did not ask that the individual give to Ceasar and hope that the money ends up where they want it to. The religious people in North America do massive amounts of giving and serving. Look up "helping hands" where ever there has been natural disasters in the last decade... these are some of the first responders (even before the government gets there) that are out helping people.

You seem to be arguing for a "socialist government" I am arguing for what Christ taught. Every individual get out and do their part.

I'm pretty sure it was Christ that said "render unto ceasar that which is ceasars" His teachings said nothing about Ceasar taking part in wealth distribution. That is why conservative religious people vote for minimalist governments. we don't want Ceasar baby sitting us or our children.

LOL, you're "pretty sure" it was Christ who said that? How much have you read the Bible anyways?

Right wing religious people vote the way they do for the same reason right wing atheists do, I don't think you're going to find scripture to support their agenda though.

Mark 12: 15-18

15 "Shall we pay or shall we not pay?" But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, "Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to look at."

16 They brought one. And He said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" And they said to Him, "Caesar's."

17 And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

18 Some Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection) came to Jesus, and began questioning Him, saying,

[Big ned]

I guess sarcasm doesn't come across that well on the forum. Of course it was Christ that said that. I don't look to scripture to decide what agenda to follow. I do take the general message and then look at who most closely represents my views. I don't consider depending on the government for handouts what Christ taught. We believe we should be self sufficient and provide for our families needs. With what we have left we should give to the poor and needy, not give it to the government to distribute to the lazy and dishonest. \

Now before you freak out (which I know some of you are getting ready to do right now) I didn't say everybody on welfare is lazy and dishonest, but I see a number of them in my office every week who are there for free welfare services and are talking on their iphones about the 52 inch lcd tv they got for christmas.

Let me lay out how welfare should be run (because it is the way the church does it very successfully).

The government should invest in farms, orchards and canning facilities for their welfare program. If a person is able bodied but needs assistance because he can't find a job, then the welfare system puts him to work at the farms or canning facilites... if there is none of those in the area, they work for the local government on maintenance crews for parks etc. They do not receive money for their work, they receive food that is grown in the welfare system along with housing. This stops the abuse of the system for drugs and alcohol when money is given. If they don't like the setup, they are welcome to go get a real job and spend the money anyway they please. If they have a legitimate disability, the resources are no charge, but they still don't get cash.

The problem is that the political correctness today has gone so far that the laws state you can not force someone to work at a job they don't want, but yet they are free to take hard earned tax dollars without lifting a finger. This produces a whole segment of society that do anything they can to work the system and get something for nothing... welfare society.

Our church has been running this system with farms, dairy farms, orchards etc. all over the world and it works like a charm. It is also the reason the LDS church is so often on site of natural distasters all over the world with food and emergency supplies before anyone else. Our welfare system works and has a large surplus every year that is given to those in need. Governments has been trying to copy the program for decades, but it is the political correctness of the left that keeps it from being successful.

[OREZ]

I guess sarcasm doesn't come across that well on the forum. Of course it was Christ that said that...
...Let me lay out how welfare should be run (because it is the way the church does it very successfully)....

...The government should invest in farms, orchards and canning facilities for their welfare program. If a person is able bodied but needs assistance because he can't find a job, then the welfare system puts him to work at the farms or canning facilites... if there is none of those in the area, they work for the local government on maintenance crews for parks etc. They do not receive money for their work, they receive food that is grown in the welfare system along with housing. This stops the abuse of the system for drugs and alcohol when money is given. If they don't like the setup, they are welcome to go get a real job and spend the money anyway they please. If they have a legitimate disability, the resources are no charge, but they still don't get cash...

...Our church has been running this system with farms, dairy farms, orchards etc. all over the world and it works like a charm.

Ah, sarcasm. No it doesn't always come across, does it? Especially since what you're talking about is closer to true socialism than, well, socialism. Your political views seem a little contradictory to me but I understand the intent.

I believe that the majority of people who need a helping hand would be happy to work and learn valuable life skills such as gardening and farming (heck, it’s a life-long dream to many) rather than collecting a cheque which isn’t enough to provide healthy food or adequate housing.

Unfortunately, that isn’t an option since we have this pesky capitalist system of trade that reduces the essentials of life to numbers in an account. We can’t really blame the people who are in need for that, can we? For now, it’s the system which we are stuck with, I would like to see it be as compassionate and forgiving as possible.

PS, I’m still not sure how Christ telling people to “render unto Caesar” is in agreement with having as little government as possible.

[RR24K]

Those of you who have posted are trying to match some political ideology to christianly. Well to start with the true form of christianly it has been polluted and has not been around now for 1800+ years. What we have is a badly tainted form of christianly as a starting point.
Know lets look at the political side we have the same problem if you were to look at each of the of these parties. In it raw form you would see that they all have been tainted as well.

So good luck with this.

[OREZ]

:ohmygod: Those of you who have posted are trying to match some political ideology to christianly. Well to start with the true form of christianly it has been polluted and has not been around now for 1800+ years. What we have is a badly tainted form of christianly as a starting point.
Know lets look at the political side we have the same problem if you were to look at each of the of these parties. In it raw form you would see that they all have been tainted as well.

So good luck with this.

Yyyya. Well that is the topic of this dicussion, nobody's holding a gun to your head.

You may be looking for a Nihilst Forum, I'm sure there's no shortage of them out there.

[RR24K]

:ohmygod: Those of you who have posted are trying to match some political ideology to christianly. Well to start with the true form of christianly it has been polluted and has not been around now for 1800+ years. What we have is a badly tainted form of christianly as a starting point.
Know lets look at the political side we have the same problem if you were to look at each of the of these parties. In it raw form you would see that they all have been tainted as well.

So good luck with this.

Yyyya. Well that is the topic of this dicussion, nobody's holding a gun to your head.

You may be looking for a Nihilst Forum, I'm sure there's no shortage of them out there.

No thanks, but feel free to return yourself.

[razzledazzle]

My own opinion is that organized religion sucks, just by looking at the posts anything to do with religion gets people going, quoting the bible on this and that, contradicting each other, personal interpetitions of the so called holy book, i have seen so called christians walk right over people when down on the ground, seen a priest do that at the Serbian church in Edmonton, so in turn i turned up my music in my offroad 4x4 while there church windows were open and played Hiway To Hell. I then gave the priest chit after he was done with his flock.

[I Think]

Just my opinion but I think that more people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. christianity obviously doesnt work.