I'm an Atheist

[flamingfingers]

DA I have only one bone to pick with you and probably many others. But I do not believe you should label Christianity as the only true evil. All religions are evil. Simply because they allow an individual to escape their personal responsibilities here on earth by promising absolution from atrocitities (overt and complicit) they perform in their 'real lives' while here on earth. The promise is everlasting life if adhering to one religion, nubile virgins in another and reincarnation for 'another chance' in others.

No, nothing can be proven but it does allow a 'true believer' of whatever religion they ascribe to absolve themselves of accountability. Yeah. Keep the faith.

[steven lloyd]

I can objectively consider and appreciate the viewpoints and understanding held by atheists. At least until they start presuming to be intellectually superior because they are atheist. A person quickly loses credibility once they begin to display their ignorance.

What I most certainly have a problem with is organized religion and most specifically the Christian mentality. I just can't buy it. All evidentiary illogic aside the blatant hypocrisy of it is beyond me. It is the source of all evil in North America today. It is the foundation of immoral government and debases our economic welfare.

DA, I really appreciate and respect your knowledge and expertise in the field of real estate.

If you take exception to my comment regarding the Christian mentality that "All evidentiary illogic aside the blatant hypocrisy of it is beyond me. It is the source of all evil in North America today. It is the foundation of immoral government and debases our economic welfare" refers to the many lives that have been taken in the name of Christianity throughout the ages and other such hypocracies that are rife throughout the organization.

This has always been a popular strategy of misdirection used by the ruling class (and still is today). All of these lives that have “been taken in the name of Christianity” were in fact lives that were taken to satisfy and perpetuate the goals of the ruling class. A perfect example from history is the crusades. Even today we are taught that the crusades was about spreading the word of Christ to the heathens east of Europe. This distracts us from the true objective which was capitalist expansion (yes, even in those days), and the use of religion to recruit and motivate fighters.

To say religion was the source of this transgression is simply inaccurate. It played an integral part, but when looking to the cause of a thing, as always, look to those who hold the money.

[Devil's Advocate]

DA I have only one bone to pick with you and probably many others. But I do not believe you should label Christianity as the only true evil. All religions are evil. Simply because they allow an individual to escape their personal responsibilities here on earth by promising absolution from atrocitities (overt and complicit) they perform in their 'real lives' while here on earth. The promise is everlasting life if adhering to one religion, nubile virgins in another and reincarnation for 'another chance' in others.

No, nothing can be proven but it does allow a 'true believer' of whatever religion they ascribe to absolve themselves of accountability. Yeah. Keep the faith.

So what is the bone you have to pick with me as on that we are in complete agreement.

[Devil's Advocate]

This has always been a popular strategy of misdirection used by the ruling class (and still is today). All of these lives that have “been taken in the name of Christianity” were in fact lives that were taken to satisfy and perpetuate the goals of the ruling class. A perfect example from history is the crusades. Even today we are taught that the crusades was about spreading the word of Christ to the heathens east of Europe. This distracts us from the true objective which was capitalist expansion (yes, even in those days), and the use of religion to recruit and motivate fighters.

To say religion was the source of this transgression is simply inaccurate. It played an integral part, but when looking to the cause of a thing, as always, look to those who hold the money.

And this too I am in agreement with. Yes, a very valid arguement could be made that the "ruling class" uses religion to perpetuate it's goals... absolutely. Which brings us back full circle to is there any truth in religion or is it just another story (untruth) we are being told to manipulate us toward a desired end to the benefit of the storyteller? Zeitgeist...

[steven lloyd]

Which brings us back full circle to is there any truth in religion or is it just another story (untruth) we are being told to manipulate us toward a desired end to the benefit of the storyteller? Zeitgeist...

Instead of looking to religion as the untruth (which in many cases I would agree it is), we need to look to and challenge our ideas of why capitalism is so great and wonderful, and the untruths we are continually being fed by government and media.

[steven lloyd]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but it always surprises me how threatened the atheists on this board are by the idea they might not be exactly correct in their assumption that God cannot exist. I know they will not acknowledge their fear (at least not here), but there is no other reason to be so obsessed in trying to “prove” someone else’s belief is wrong when that belief cannot be proven or disproven either way by either scientific or logical method. Certainly there is an issue of religious belief interfering with our politics, and that is something we all need to oppose (in my opinion) - but another subject.

I don’t believe in unicorns, however, my reasons for believing in the existence of something I’ll call God are far more profound and complex as what could be as easily dismissed. When you try to ridicule me as a result of not being able to engage in critical thought and think outside your comfort zone, it is not me who is insulted.

[Glacier]

I am not entitled to my opinion after half a century of life give or take in a society grossly influenced by one religion - Christianity.

DA, I think what you are getting at is not necessarily Christianity, but more hypocrisy as the evil. Jesus Christ would agree with you a lot about the religion causes a lot of problems. I realized this a couple years ago when i dusted off the old bible and read the New Testament. Every time Jesus would get mad at people - THEY WERE ALMOST ALWAYS THE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. They religious people of the day were showing off how righteous they were on the outside when on the inside "their hearts were filled with wickedness." In other words they were a bunch of hypocrites.

If someone calls themselves a Christian, but is out killing people they are not a Christian just like a person calling themselves a humanist is not a humanist if they are screwing over their fellow humans.

[FunkyBunch]

Seems we are in agreement Glacier.

[nolanrh]

First, I know you weren't directing your post at anyone in particular but I thought I'd respond.

The discussion of Atheism is not so much an obsession with proving others wrong so much as it is an exploration of my own beliefs. Throughout these conversations I'm often forced to reresearch my beliefs and reorganize my ideas into ingestible arguments. For example, a previous statement about God being favored by Occam's Razor forced me to review the principle and reconsider whether this was or wasn't true. This furthers my understanding of my own beliefs and my ability to convey those beliefs to others.

These discussions also act as a rational test of my understanding as well as provide arguments for and against a belief in God. They are exercises in critical thinking, research and debate.

That being said, I see no reason to hold any punches against criticizing religious beliefs. Why should one's religious beliefs be given any special consideration? Why is it okay to tackle Capitalism but not Catholicism?

nolan

[Devil's Advocate]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but it always surprises me how threatened the atheists on this board are by the idea they might not be exactly correct in their assumption that God cannot exist. I know they will not acknowledge their fear (at least not here), but there is no other reason to be so obsessed in trying to “prove” someone else’s belief is wrong when that belief cannot be proven or disproven either way by either scientific or logical method. Certainly there is an issue of religious belief interfering with our politics, and that is something we all need to oppose (in my opinion) - but another subject.

I don’t believe in unicorns, however, my reasons for believing in the existence of something I’ll call God are far more profound and complex as what could be as easily dismissed. When you try to ridicule me as a result of not being able to engage in critical thought and think outside your comfort zone, it is not me who is insulted.

I don't know what I would call myself. I am exploring and have not yet come to any overall conclusion but rather a series of observations. Do I believe in a superior power? Fundamentally yes... that good prevails over evil being the preferred outcome although that is not always the result. I have not put this belief in a bottle with a label and/or face on it but it is the foundation upon which I am building. Will I ever achieve even a framework upon that foundation? Probably not but does it really matter?

I do believe I am here to learn. Maybe one lesson and move on, maybe multiple lessons to pass on. I don't know what comes after nor do I really care. I do know that I am here now and that I will live on in my children, this I know for sure. What I do today will live on and on in how it shapes my children’s world and that of their children. In that I have a great responsibility to do and be the very best I can for them as in that they are that higher power to which I aspire to be of and for.

[FunkyBunch]

DA I have only one bone to pick with you and probably many others. But I do not believe you should label Christianity as the only true evil. All religions are evil. Simply because they allow an individual to escape their personal responsibilities here on earth by promising absolution from atrocitities (overt and complicit) they perform in their 'real lives' while here on earth. The promise is everlasting life if adhering to one religion, nubile virgins in another and reincarnation for 'another chance' in others.

No, nothing can be proven but it does allow a 'true believer' of whatever religion they ascribe to absolve themselves of accountability. Yeah. Keep the faith.

I have a few problems with that. Religions (or at least the principles they are founded on) are not the problem. The problem stems from those who profess to be of a religion but do so in name only. If they were "true believers" they wouldn't need to be held accountable as they wouldn't do what they needed to be absolved of.

If someone performs atrocities for the most of their life, if they choose to try and follow a religion in their dieing days, it will be in name only. Their core belief system can't change that fast, and the only reason they would even think about it is because they are trying to "protect" themselves from their crimes.

You can't become a true believer out of fear as a hedge against the things you've done in your life.

In all likelihood, those who "change on their deathbed" aren't changing at all. They're trying to use it as an insurance policy just in case they would be held accountable. You don't think God would see through that? Just because it's encouraged by the leaders at large doesn't actually mean it's possible.

[NoOne]

i truly believe that without faith, or at least a belief in something bigger than all of us, we would not be here to discuss the topic. throughout history people (noble and rich or peasant and poor) believed in something greater than themselves to die so others may continue living life as they choose. it is the same for either side in any conflict. i'm right, you are wrong. both sides have faith.

faith can not be proven. it is the mind of each person to find faith.

try to prove to anyone that a supreme being can't exist. just has hard to do as proving they do exist except i see things everyday that make me wonder how can that be just random? how can that be just by chance? the wondering gives me faith.

Man's use of religion (not the religion itself) has been the cause of many eras of evil and conflict. the evil is in man.

atheists, whether intentional or not, do tend to consider themselves superior to those with faith, like only they have it all figured out. fundamentalists tend to get that way too. i'm right, you are wrong. if the conflict started today who would win the war?

life goes on in middle.

[nolanrh]

... i see things everyday that make me wonder how can that be just random? how can that be just by chance? the wondering gives me faith.

I don't understand how just wondering why something is the way it is gives you faith in God. There are explanations that do not require God for many phenomenon. In your mind is there an arbitrary line of complexity that requires faith in God as an explanation?

Man's use of religion (not the religion itself) has been the cause of many eras of evil and conflict. the evil is in man.

Agreed.

atheists, whether intentional or not, do tend to consider themselves superior to those with faith, like only they have it all figured out. fundamentalists tend to get that way too. i'm right, you are wrong. if the conflict started today who would win the war?

I don't think disagreeing about the existence of God necessarily implies a a feeling superiority. I disagree with many right-wing economic thinkers on their paradigm by I don't consider myself superior. In fact, I feel significantly inferior to many of these same people.

[NoOne]

... i see things everyday that make me wonder how can that be just random? how can that be just by chance? the wondering gives me faith.

I don't understand how just wondering why something is the way it is gives you faith in God. There are explanations that do not require God for many phenomenon. In your mind is there an arbitrary line of complexity that requires faith in God as an explanation?

Man's use of religion (not the religion itself) has been the cause of many eras of evil and conflict. the evil is in man.

Agreed.

atheists, whether intentional or not, do tend to consider themselves superior to those with faith, like only they have it all figured out. fundamentalists tend to get that way too. i'm right, you are wrong. if the conflict started today who would win the war?

I don't think disagreeing about the existence of God necessarily implies a a feeling superiority. I disagree with many right-wing economic thinkers on their paradigm by I don't consider myself superior. In fact, I feel significantly inferior to many of these same people.

if you actually read what i wrote you'll notice i never once mentioned god. and though you feel yourself an atheist you capitalize the word god. as if its a proper name or a real person.

[FunkyBunch]

While this may just be semantics on my part:

Atheism is a belief NO god not a lack of belief in A god.

As far as I can see, you don't believe the possibility of God is impossible which again leads me to ask the question: Are you sure you're not an agnostic?