Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?

Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence?

1.00: Strong theist. 100 percent possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
27
30%
2.00: Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there
5
6%
3.00: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'
5
6%
4.00: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
6
7%
5.00: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'
4
4%
6.00: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
30
34%
7:00: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung 'knows' there is one.'
12
13%
 
Total votes: 89

1nick
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 1nick »

5VP wrote:I've alluded to the non-religious personal connection aspect of God many times and also mentioned, to the apparent deep chagrin of many here, that I live in a remote location free of many of the strictures of modern life.

I see those here who resist the probability/possibility of God as being caught in the web of this modern way of "living" even though they may not actually realize how entangled they really are.

IMHO of course...


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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 5VP »

-fluffy- wrote:To be truthful 5VP, I don't think it's your idea of God that many disagree with, it has been mentioned many times that that is a deeply personal thing. It's the tenacity with which you hang on to the literalist view of the Bible, and continue to present that book as proof of God's existence in the form described therein despite the fact that the Bible is an ancient product of ancient human hands. There is also a degree of arrogance in the way you present that view as if it were the only reasonable option. For you perhaps it is, but you seem reluctant to admit that there are other options.


ONCE MORE...

As I have stated repeatedly throughout this dialogue; I DO NOT hold the bible to be the end-all, be-all final say on the matter.

There are countless alternate other reasonable options to the literalist judeo christian version but in the end they all acknowledge God(s).

The bible is, I believe, the starting point to discovering God that most of us here were introduced to at an early age and, I hold, still a valid reference document despite being a dusty old tome.

To a 20 something, I, @ 50 something might also be considered an irrelevant ancient product but would still present a challenge for anyone trying to knuckle me under.

My tenacity is equal to that of others with opposing views. No More, no less ( except I use less insults...)

P.S.

There are other channels on this network that may be less frustrating for you......
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by fluffy »

5VP wrote:... I DO NOT hold the bible to be the end-all, be-all final say on the matter.

There are countless alternate other reasonable options to the literalist judeo christian version but in the end they all acknowledge God(s).


Yes 5VP, there are many writings, and they continue to be produced at a significant rate, and while they all acknowledge God they are all the product of human hand, and as such prove nothing other than the fact that human belief in a higher power has endured for ages,and continues to endure. Human belief does not prove existence of anything other than the belief itself. Granted there is a marked absence of definitive proof against the existence of God in the traditional "supreme being" sense, but that just brings us back to "I don't know" doesn't it?
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 5VP »

-fluffy- wrote:
5VP wrote:... I DO NOT hold the bible to be the end-all, be-all final say on the matter.

There are countless alternate other reasonable options to the literalist judeo christian version but in the end they all acknowledge God(s).


Yes 5VP, there are many writings, and they continue to be produced at a significant rate, and while they all acknowledge God they are all the product of human hand, and as such prove nothing other than the fact that human belief in a higher power has endured for ages,and continues to endure. Human belief does not prove existence of anything other than the belief itself. Granted there is a marked absence of definitive proof against the existence of God in the traditional "supreme being" sense, but that just brings us back to "I don't know" doesn't it?


Nope...

You could just as easily apply your own rationale to your comments or to science.

You may be looking to hard for something that is just under your nose.

To me it looks like it's a, " I can't see the forest cuz of all the trees" issue for you...

Your rationale is like trying to convince someone (say from another planet or someone born within the last 10 years) looking at photo of the 1950's New York skyline and trying to convince them the World Trade towers once existed but were blown up.

They could show you a photo from today convinced that you are crazy and they could, by rationalizing, be right; but are they really?

They, like you and other infidels, could rationally (in their minds) look at you like you were nuts and say, "If they were there where are they now? I don't see them"... and assume that the towers never existed and that you are a known user of photoshop pro, so are therefore wrong and deceptive....
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by fluffy »

It's not your beliefs 5VP, it's the way you present them. I could care less what you believe in, that's your business, but you're in the habit of assuming that what has become "fact" for you should be fact for everyone. You're quick to label others as infidels and non-believers simply because their beliefs are not a carbon copy of yours, which really shows me that words like acceptance and tolerance hold little meaning for you, and that in turn tells me that there might be a couple of peas missing from your belief pod. I have a god in my life, but he is a god of my own understanding, a god that does not require that I bend the rules of science and credulity to keep him near, and we are quite comfortable with each other. He lets me keep my eyes open to the myriad possibilities of life, and every now and then he gives me a peek at just how I fit into the big picture, and lets' me know what I could be doing to make tomorrow just a little better than yesterday. He doesn't rule my life, but is always there to help when I ask.
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 5VP »

-fluffy- wrote:It's not your beliefs 5VP, it's the way you present them. I could care less what you believe in, that's your business, but you're in the habit of assuming that what has become "fact" for you should be fact for everyone. You're quick to label others as infidels and non-believers simply because their beliefs are not a carbon copy of yours, which really shows me that words like acceptance and tolerance hold little meaning for you, and that in turn tells me that there might be a couple of peas missing from your belief pod. I have a god in my life, but he is a god of my own understanding, a god that does not require that I bend the rules of science and credulity to keep him ear, and we are quite comfortable with each other. He lets me keep my eyes open to the myriad possibilities of life, and every now and then he gives me a peek at just how I fit into the big picture, and lets' me know what I could be doing to make tomorrow just a little better than yesterday. He doesn't rule my life, but is always there to help when I ask.


I don't, and never have, asumed anything here and I wouldn't have lasted as long as I have in the business I am in, if I were to keyhole people and be intolerant.

I wouldn't go the extreme of declaring, like you have, that "I could care less..", but you, and others here are, however, continually displaying intolerance towards my views and me personally so all I can suggest is; "if thine eye offends thee..." and/or simply change the channel.

What other PC "label" (besides atheism) is suitable for those who don't believe in god but the term non-believers? Infidels is the Islamic term for the same thing.

I am not trying to change anyone here. Read back through the thread and see for yourself who has been putting who on the defensive (ie. short a pea in the pod.. Whose pod are you casting this judgement from?)...

My impression is that, what you find arrogant and intolerant about my style of prose, is simply my pragmatic confidence in my faith and that despite your personal attacks and rhetoric and that of others here, my faith remains true.

Try arguing the statements I make rather than dodging them and making personal attacks when you find the logic too logically simple to comprehend.

That would be cool to see here...

Glad to see though, after all is said and done that, in your last 2 sentences that we are on the same page anyways (do you now admit to being a believer?); as I have previously stated similar thoughts on my connection with god. A connection we all share but not all can admit to...
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 5VP »

nickd wrote: Your opinion is not so humble.
Your 'umble like Uriah Heep.


Well then...

"Let's all go to, the magician's birthday..."
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by fluffy »

5VP wrote:Try arguing the statements I make....


Okay, can we start with this one please?

5VP wrote:...like you and other infidels...


Please explain what you hoped to accomplish with this remark.
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by steven lloyd »

-fluffy- wrote:
5VP wrote:Try arguing the statements I make....

Okay, can we start with this one please?

5VP wrote:...like you and other infidels...

And while you're at it can you (5VP) elucidate us as to which two "disbelievers" you were referring to here ?

5VP wrote: You 2 disbelievers ...

... and by what criteria you determined them to fit the label you assigned.
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by fluffy »

5VP wrote:(ie. short a pea in the pod.. Whose pod are you casting this judgement from?)...


I thought my meaning was plain, I was commenting that your posts gave the impression that acceptance and tolerance were not part of your personal belief system. These pretty basic concepts common to the majority of spiritual programs. Would you care to comment?
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by Southkelowna »

I am a 11. Very interesting pole. Thanks for posting this!
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 5VP »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel

OK...

So this is your explanation??

Another rationalizing dodge of your own involvement in these cause and effect repartees??

Saying that one is "A pea short of a pod" is a direct insult of a person's intelligence; plain and simple. There are many other direct insults that have been used by various other respondents here. Look for yourself.

These are ad hominem comments indicating that the one using the epiphets has not been able form a cogent counter to the discussion at hand and thus resorts to insult.

The term infidel is no different than saying atheist or non believer and is not any statement on you as person other than referring to statements of disbelief in god. If you are insulted than perhaps you are not really a nonbelieving infidel or atheist.

I suppose by way of explanation for using infidel instead of atheist or non believer I can say that it was part of my thought flow while typing and infidel seemed a good way to take this regional discussion to a more global level and pragmatically demonstrate that attacking christianity as the sole source of belief in god is erroneous, useless endeavour and that to attack the christian belief system of god as described in the bible will not do anything to end or damage the faith in god that other faiths maintain.
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by fluffy »

I think you're getting your back up for no reason 5VP. I don't belittle or begrudge your beliefs, I just don't happen to share them. I've tried to explain why on more than one occasion and your response is invariably an accusation of personal attack, which is no more my intent than your choice of loosely veiled insults and sarcasm can be considered an attack. If you meant no insult with the use of the word "infidel" then I apologize for inferring that you did. If you did mean to use the word in a provocative manner then maybe you can give that a little thought tonight when the lights are out and it's just you and God.

You have what appears to be a more traditional perception of God, that of a supreme consciousness somewhere on a cosmic level. I have considered this possibility and while I don't deny its possibility, something on a very basic level within me says that it isn't going to work for me. The God of my understanding is something a little more ObiwanKenobi-ish if you get my drift. But, as I've said all along, that since there is no definitive proof either way and you and are both just operating on our best theories to date, it doesn't really matter one way or the other does it?
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by 5VP »

Once more...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel

As you should have been able to see, the word "infidel" is a descriptor, not an insultative term. It applies to christians and non christians alike.

Telling someone that, they are a pea(s) short of a pod is direct and intolerant insult and also; if you can recall this bit of judgement from another thread...

-fluffy- wrote:
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Your belief in god seems to have conditions and one of those conditions seems to be not accepting my way of accepting the existence of god while expecting your beliefs to be unchallengeable.

Savvy??
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Re: Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence

Post by fluffy »

5VP wrote:Your belief in god seems to have conditions and one of those conditions seems to be not accepting my way of accepting the existence of god while expecting your beliefs to be unchallengeable.


Seriously my friend, I don't think you have anything to teach me about acceptance. That's not an insult or attack, simply an observation based on recent experience. I have never condemned your spiritual views, but I have attempted to explain the reasons why such views don't work for me. You see, the whole 'leap of faith" thing is a bit too much for me. I'm open to possibilities, but in the absence of definitive proof one way or the other it just makes sense to me to remain uncommitted.
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