Religious belief and intellect.

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
Mr. Personality
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Mr. Personality »

westsidebud wrote:
Nabcom wrote:
westsidebud wrote:all religion is flawed in the sense that if one does not understand something or cant have it proven to them ,then some god or goddess must be responsible


Now that to me seems just silly. I know lots of people who are religious to one degree or another, as well as many who are not in any way. But none of them have a problem dealing with things that have no apparent explanation (that they are aware of), yet still not attributing it to some God or Goddess.

Nab



orealy?so if you go into a church and ask who made the universe ,what will the answer be?

A better question would be "How did the universe come to be?"

You're already alluding to the idea that it was made by someone. Also, the fact that someone believes a God made the universe does not mean that person's thinking pattern is like an episode of Charmed (the show bases most of itself on "How did that happen?" "I don't know, magic").
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westsidebud
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by westsidebud »

Mr. Personality wrote:
westsidebud wrote:
Nabcom wrote:
westsidebud wrote:all religion is flawed in the sense that if one does not understand something or cant have it proven to them ,then some god or goddess must be responsible


Now that to me seems just silly. I know lots of people who are religious to one degree or another, as well as many who are not in any way. But none of them have a problem dealing with things that have no apparent explanation (that they are aware of), yet still not attributing it to some God or Goddess.

Nab



orealy?so if you go into a church and ask who made the universe ,what will the answer be?

A better question would be "How did the universe come to be?"

You're already alluding to the idea that it was made by someone. Also, the fact that someone believes a God made the universe does not mean that person's thinking pattern is like an episode of Charmed (the show bases most of itself on "How did that happen?" "I don't know, magic").

yes you right.ty for the correction
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mtnman1
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by mtnman1 »

Queen K wrote:Yeah, Nab. Oh, really? So, if you go into a Church, and ask, "Who created the Universe?" What will the answer be?



If you go into a bar at midnight and ask the same question, what would the answer be?

How about the answer from The Discovery Channel?

Ask a physisist.

Creationist?

Darwin?
Lack of objection is implied consent.
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westsidebud
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by westsidebud »

the diffrence is when that question is asked in a church the over wellming answer is a certain god just said well im bored i think i will conjure up a earth ,and just to have some laughs i will decree if you dnt follow my silly rules you cant come visit me,and for evan more sillyness ill make the humans all sinners .if the theory of relitivaty and quantum are unified , there will be this so called god.nature1 bible 0
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GordonH
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by GordonH »

1) Who created the Universe?


2) How did the universe come to be?


For both questions church would be last place I would ever go for the an answer.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by NAB »

westsidebud wrote:the diffrence is when that question is asked in a church the over wellming answer is a certain god just said well im bored i think i will conjure up a earth ,and just to have some laughs i will decree if you dnt follow my silly rules you cant come visit me,and for evan more sillyness ill make the humans all sinners .if the theory of relitivaty and quantum are unified , there will be this so called god.nature1 bible 0


No higher order created sinners, mankind did ;-) ergo nature created sinners.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by I Think »

Nabcom wrote:No higher order created sinners, mankind did ;-) ergo nature created sinners.


Equally no higher order created gods, mankind did. - ergo nature created gods.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by NAB »

Squire Nibs wrote:
Nabcom wrote:No higher order created sinners, mankind did ;-) ergo nature created sinners.


Equally no higher order created gods, mankind did. - ergo nature created gods.


Ah yes. So now we must define "nature" and "life", and look at how it was created/who created it in the first place? Until that point is determined with absolute certainty, all the rest (whether from the religious or non religious perspective) is just a waste of breath IMO. Same unproductive circle, different day LOL.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by I Think »

Sure -
god created man in gods image,
man created god in mans image

Of course the diff is that man is observable, testable etc.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by NAB »

Squire Nibs wrote:Sure -
god created man in gods image,
man created god in mans image

Of course the diff is that man is observable, testable etc.


Ah, yes, so we, the infallible wisest of the wise and the ultimate being of all creation (or so we seem to think), decide the reality or non-reality of nature and eternity based on an observable and testable few thousand years of mankind's self serving ranting, distortion, and manipulation. Brilliant LOL. But demonstrably the ultimate of stupidity and lack of true intellect.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by I Think »

Not sure I understand what you set out, but maybe I agree with you.

Nabcom wrote: so we, the infallible wisest of the wise and the ultimate being of all creation (or so we seem to think).


We the wisest? when there are billions upon billions of stars, and jillions of planets, therefore lots of possible beings out there. We aren't even sure that we are smarter than the whales or dolphins right here on our own planet.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by chickenlittle »

SpazmoTheMagnificent wrote:We know that the population of more developed countries, have higher intellect, in general, than less developed countries.
Does this fact ring true for different religions? Are followers of certain religions, by following the doctrine of said religion, less intelligent for doing so?

If yes, leads to my second question...

Are the religions that quell the growth of intellect within its followers, less peaceful in practice or more militant?


Perhaps you should look up the word "intellect".

in·tel·lect (ntl-kt)
n.
1.
a. The ability to learn and reason; the capacity for knowledge and understanding.
b. The ability to think abstractly or profoundly.

There is no evidence that I know of that demonstrates people of 1st world countries have higher intelligence than those of developing countries. We may have a higher level of knowledge but this in no way demonstrates a higher level of intelligence.

knowl·edge (nlj)
n.
1. The state or fact of knowing.
2. Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3. The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4. Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
5. Specific information about something.

It is arrogant to assume that just because we have been afforded the opportunity to gain more and different knowledge that we are more intelligent. In fact you would assume that some one of such a higher level of intellect would know the difference.
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by NAB »

Nibs wrote:Not sure I understand what you set out, but maybe I agree with you.

Nabcom wrote: Ah yes, so we, the infallible wisest of the wise and the ultimate being of all creation (or so we seem to think), decide the reality or non-reality of nature and eternity based on an observable and testable few thousand years of mankind's self serving ranting, distortion, and manipulation. Brilliant LOL. But demonstrably the ultimate of stupidity and lack of true intellect.


We the wisest? when there are billions upon billions of stars, and jillions of planets, therefore lots of possible beings out there. We aren't even sure that we are smarter than the whales or dolphins right here on our own planet.


So, who is "we"? Moderate Religious? Questioning Agnostic? Self Serving Atheist? Evolutionist? Creationist? Scientist? Educator? Whacko's, Criminals, Fraudsters and Lunatics who populate the extremes and fringes of all those sectors (and many more)?

All of the above?

Seems to me all of those sectors are arrogantly and equally guilty of using the rantings, foibles, weaknesses, and manipulations of mankind through documented history as evidence of their superior and more worthy position, hence have the supreme right to hold power and/or sway over the earthly masses, ...based only on earthly mankind's accrued "knowledge", reference, and behaviour of a few thousand years. Yes, and all reference "the bible" and similar writings to one degree or another in an effort to find support for their particular position.

While the thread topic and OP seem to question the intellect of only the religious, I submit the question applies equally to all protagonists of whatever stripe who think they have the answer, that their way is "more right" or "more plausible" and must be foisted on everone else, .....hence "everyman" must come around to their way of thinking if only they had the intellect and knowledge to do so.

Quite funny really, since "everyman" is working with the same overall (and very limited - a brief few thousand years out of the billions the universe has existed remember) pool of earthly knowledge and wild speculation (should they even wish to - most don't), ...and no where in that pool of knowledge and speculation is the answer sought. In fact IMO even the question requiring an answer is not asked because no one knows for sure how to frame it.

So it would seem to me a display of serious lack of intellect for anyone to assert, indeed even try to prove, they have the answer. Religious...; or not.

Nab
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by I Think »

Nabcom wrote:So it would seem to me a display of serious lack of intellect for anyone to assert, indeed even try to prove, they have the answer. Religious...; or not.


It would derail much of this thread, if the Christians would say "I don't really know if god exists"
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Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by NAB »

Squire Nibs wrote:
Nabcom wrote:So it would seem to me a display of serious lack of intellect for anyone to assert, indeed even try to prove, they have the answer. Religious...; or not.


It would derail much of this thread, if the Christians would say "I don't really know if god exists"


Interestingly, in my own experience that is exactly what many (most?) of them would say, at least the reasonably intelligent ones. It's just too bad that many of those who are totally non -religious also have so much difficulty making the same statement.
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