Religious belief and intellect.

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
User avatar
Homeownertoo
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3948
Joined: Nov 10th, 2008, 1:50 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Homeownertoo »

Piecemaker wrote:
Homeownertoo wrote:And what then? You'd want another? You seem, my friend, to have missed the point -- which was to tone down the hyperbole and report as fact only what you know to be so. We both know you could not possibly back up your statement. And even if it were true, it would be entirely beside the point of those religions, which was to present those teachings in a way that made them relevant and meaningful to their people. If it is true that there's nothing new under the Sun, it is nevertheless also true that there is value in presenting old verities in original ways that give them new force.


I agree. Unfortunately, a verity from one person's perspective, may not be a verity from another's. It's subjective.
Even when a verity is agreed upon, the interpretation may not be the same.
For example, "Treating others as you would like to be treated" (aka Golden Rule) is a verity found in many religions. It is found in many religions that attempt to force their way on others. It is found in many religions with racist and sexist practices. It's like a case of my "Golden Rule" is 24-carat, and all others is iron pyrite.

I've wondered if Devil worship isn't just a foil so that unsuspecting followers of formal religions won't realize they are actually worshipping the devil unawares. (Kinda like importing ingredients from another country to Canada, mixing up the food product and then saying it was "Made in Canada." ) Some truth makes it more difficult to sort out what is false.

Which all goes to say that while there may be nothing new under the Sun, old verities can be viewed in completely new ways. Which illustrates the value (to the various religions/philosophies), of recycling old ideas, and the inanity of saying, as one person here did, "Not a single original idea in the whole shebang."

I'm not sure what you mean by "many religions that attempt to force their way on others". It's been many years since that could be said of Christianity. It certainly (to my knowledge) doesn't include Judaism, Buddhism, Confucianism or Taoism, nor any of the lesser religions (almost by definition). That leaves only Islam, of which I suppose that could be said.
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
User avatar
Mr Danksworth
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mar 7th, 2006, 8:38 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Mr Danksworth »

Homeownertoo wrote:[It's been many years since that could be said of Christianity.

:coffeecanuck:
Nothing on the Internet is so serious it can't be laughed at, and nothing is as laughable as people who think otherwise.
User avatar
Piecemaker
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 12587
Joined: Jun 6th, 2007, 8:43 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Piecemaker »

Homeownertoo wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "many religions that attempt to force their way on others". It's been many years since that could be said of Christianity. It certainly (to my knowledge) doesn't include Judaism, Buddhism, Confucianism or Taoism, nor any of the lesser religions (almost by definition). That leaves only Islam, of which I suppose that could be said.


I guess it would depend upon one's definition of "force". One need look no further than the issues of abortion or gay marriage to see evidence of such. Force is also evidenced in such egocentric views that some religions main purpose is to proselytize.
Others born or converted into some religions experience extreme pressure to conform, should they begin to develop an original thought. They may be shunned by family or have their spouse advised to leave them and so on.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
User avatar
Phoenix Within
Guru
Posts: 9504
Joined: Jul 24th, 2008, 7:41 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Phoenix Within »

soulra wrote:
Homeownertoo wrote:, it is nevertheless also true that there is value in presenting old verities in original ways that give them new force.


Sweet, like the new Star Trek? I'm a believer!

Wouldn't the Force be Star Wars? :D
So I love the Okanagan but it's a place best enjoyed from atop a very large pile of $100 bills. - Spocky
User avatar
Mr Danksworth
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mar 7th, 2006, 8:38 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Mr Danksworth »

^
It would only work if they remade the originals, but made it more awesome! You always take chances with remakes though. Nerds don't like it when you mess with the canon. :9923:
Nothing on the Internet is so serious it can't be laughed at, and nothing is as laughable as people who think otherwise.
User avatar
Homeownertoo
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3948
Joined: Nov 10th, 2008, 1:50 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Homeownertoo »

Piecemaker wrote:
Homeownertoo wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "many religions that attempt to force their way on others". It's been many years since that could be said of Christianity. It certainly (to my knowledge) doesn't include Judaism, Buddhism, Confucianism or Taoism, nor any of the lesser religions (almost by definition). That leaves only Islam, of which I suppose that could be said.


I guess it would depend upon one's definition of "force". One need look no further than the issues of abortion or gay marriage to see evidence of such. Force is also evidenced in such egocentric views that some religions main purpose is to proselytize.
Others born or converted into some religions experience extreme pressure to conform, should they begin to develop an original thought. They may be shunned by family or have their spouse advised to leave them and so on.

Pressure to conform is not equivalent to being able to force a person to adopt a belief or action under threat of legal sanction (ultimately violence). All societies exercise pressures to conform -- shunning, if you will -- from many directions, whether it's to get a certain kind of job, drive a certain kind of car, attend a certain kind of school or express a certain set of ideas. There is nothing illegitimate about such pressures, as distasteful as some might be. I am unaware, however, of any authority possessed by Christian churches to bring the kind of "force" you are talking about to bear on the issues of abortion or gay marriage. The best they can do is bar your way to Heaven, if that's where you hope to end up. Proselytization has little or nothing to do with force, as it relies on persuasion, usually applied in a persistent manner that nevertheless lacks any form of legal sanction.
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
User avatar
westsidebud
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3808
Joined: Jul 18th, 2009, 11:36 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by westsidebud »

all religion is flawed in the sense that if one does not understand something or cant have it proven to them ,then some god or goddess must be responsible
GO CANUCKS GO
NAB
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22985
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by NAB »

westsidebud wrote:all religion is flawed in the sense that if one does not understand something or cant have it proven to them ,then some god or goddess must be responsible


Now that to me seems just silly. I know lots of people who are religious to one degree or another, as well as many who are not in any way. But none of them have a problem dealing with things that have no apparent explanation (that they are aware of), yet still not attributing it to some God or Goddess.

Nab
"He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still." - Lao-Tzu
User avatar
mtnman1
Guru
Posts: 5692
Joined: Jul 24th, 2009, 7:59 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by mtnman1 »

Hey Soulra! Where are you? This one is right up your alley.
Lack of objection is implied consent.
User avatar
steven lloyd
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 20836
Joined: Dec 1st, 2004, 7:38 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by steven lloyd »

mtnman1 wrote:Hey Soulra! Where are you? This one is right up your alley.


see Mr. Danksworth
User avatar
mtnman1
Guru
Posts: 5692
Joined: Jul 24th, 2009, 7:59 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by mtnman1 »

steven lloyd wrote:
mtnman1 wrote:Hey Soulra! Where are you? This one is right up your alley.


see Mr. Danksworth

Oh I know that, I was just being funny. I know he is here and he is watching. It's just a matter of time......
Lack of objection is implied consent.
User avatar
Mr Danksworth
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mar 7th, 2006, 8:38 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Mr Danksworth »

That kid isn't even worth my time. I like my adversaries to have at least a basic grasp of spelling and punctuation. The ability to form a complete thought would be good too. :loonytunes:
Nothing on the Internet is so serious it can't be laughed at, and nothing is as laughable as people who think otherwise.
User avatar
mtnman1
Guru
Posts: 5692
Joined: Jul 24th, 2009, 7:59 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by mtnman1 »

Mr Danksworth wrote:That kid isn't even worth my time. I like my adversaries to have at least a basic grasp of spelling and punctuation. The ability to form a complete thought would be good too. :loonytunes:

:dyinglaughing: I knew you would be here soon.
Lack of objection is implied consent.
User avatar
westsidebud
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3808
Joined: Jul 18th, 2009, 11:36 pm

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by westsidebud »

Nabcom wrote:
westsidebud wrote:all religion is flawed in the sense that if one does not understand something or cant have it proven to them ,then some god or goddess must be responsible


Now that to me seems just silly. I know lots of people who are religious to one degree or another, as well as many who are not in any way. But none of them have a problem dealing with things that have no apparent explanation (that they are aware of), yet still not attributing it to some God or Goddess.

Nab



orealy?so if you go into a church and ask who made the universe ,what will the answer be?
GO CANUCKS GO
User avatar
Queen K
Queen of the Castle
Posts: 70572
Joined: Jan 31st, 2007, 11:39 am

Re: Religious belief and intellect.

Post by Queen K »

Yeah, Nab. Oh, really? So, if you go into a Church, and ask, "Who created the Universe?" What will the answer be?
As WW3 develops, no one is going to be dissing the "preppers." What have you done?

Return to “Religion & Spirituality”