Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

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Piecemaker
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

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Nabcom wrote:Perhaps. ....I suspect there were many factors that in combination resulted in brief "blips" in both marriage and divorce when the divorce act was amended. Still, the graphs clearly show that the divorce rate has increased in Canada over the period, and the marriage rate has declined, while up to the early seventies the relationship between the two was fairly constant. That is interesting when related to reports that, at least in the US, the age at which folk marry (26 for females, 28 for males?) is currently the highest it has been since they started gathering the data. Of course, US data does not necessarily mean Canadian results were similar.

The economy is also a factor, as you mentioned earlier. As well, the increase in marriage in the mid-70s could be some of the flower children deciding that "free love" had its cost! Don't under-estimate the boomers though...they had an impact then, as they do now with regard to the vanishing workforce. In my office and across the province, about 45% of the working professionals will be retired by 2015...unless they chose to work longer. Most retire when they can and do something else. This is huge in government service, education and health care.
I think we are pretty much on par with the US marriage/divorce stats, if memory of Sociology 101 serves me right..

Presumably that (marrying for the first time much later in life) could lead to increased incidence of premarital sex as a general "phenomena" among the under 30 demographic?
I think premarital sex has always happened, it's just that people weren't so quick to admit it and no one kept stats on it. There used to be a saying about babies, "The first one can come anytime, all the rest take 9 months!" :)
Of course I can only speculate as to any correlation that may exist between those factors and resulting life long "commitment" between partners, or whether sex or marriage even plays a major role in it, ....particularly because of the presence of so many other factors that may be causing people to delay getting married, even deciding whether to or not, or even to have children (or take a chance on having them), whether before or after marriage. Or for that matter not bothering with the marriage part of it at all if marriage itself is seen by a substantial and growing majority (both religious or non-religious) to carry no significant personal benefits for either partner any more? And of course the older we get ( say related to second or more marriages) it is often questioned whether marrying again is even wise, even with a pre-nuptial agreement.

Yes, sometimes it is financially advantageous couples to NOT marry. For some keeping estates separate is important. Lack of a marriage ceremony does not mean today what it was believed to have meant in the past. Doesn't mean that they are not committed to each other...and older folk often no longer have to worry about what their parents think, which might be why some younger folk marry.
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quietlywatching84
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by quietlywatching84 »

steven lloyd wrote:
Glacier wrote:
More than 93 percent of adults 18 to 23 who are in romantic relationships are having sex, according to the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health.


Exactly what healthy 18 to 23 year olds should be doing IMO. Keeps them off the streets


I'm going to print this off, and tell people that Steven Lloyd, my life coach, told me we need to be sleeping together

* everybody collectively cross fingers
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steven lloyd
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

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quietlywatching84 wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Glacier wrote:
More than 93 percent of adults 18 to 23 who are in romantic relationships are having sex, according to the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health.


Exactly what healthy 18 to 23 year olds should be doing IMO. Keeps them off the streets


I'm going to print this off, and tell people that Steven Lloyd, my life coach, told me we need to be sleeping together

* everybody collectively cross fingers



Hmmm. I'm not sure whether I've just been insulted or hit on.
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by NAB »

LOL. Yeah, I wasn't sure either whether quietlywatching84 was suggesting he/she would use you as a reference for him/her making it with someone else, or YOU :-) If you, I sincerely hope quietlywatching84 is a she and not a he or is liklely to be disappointed ;-)

But even then, neither of you seem to fit the age profile (18 - 23). :-)

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quietlywatching84
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by quietlywatching84 »

I'm not sure whether I've just been insulted or hit on.


how often does this occur?

but back on topic...

I think youth should be spent exploring reckless sex and emotionally catastrophic relationships, because by the time your 30, you won't have much of a choice in the matter. Nobody wants a society of emotionally stunted adults who never did anything trying to preach to everyone else, ergo, by the time you do want to get married, you'll have a lot of experience in both a)sex, and b) relationships and you might stand a chance of making it last.

fin
Last edited by quietlywatching84 on Aug 10th, 2009, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Glacier
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by Glacier »

steven lloyd wrote:Hmmm. I'm not sure whether I've just been insulted or hit on.

Both.
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by RR24K »

I know this :offtopic:


IMO Sue Johanson should travel across Canada and speak at as many Evangelical churches as possible. Just a simple fireside chat on sex and relationships.
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

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I'd pay money to see that, roadrunner.
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by Queen K »

quietlywatching84 wrote:
I'm not sure whether I've just been insulted or hit on.


how often does this occur? Wow, mmmeeeoowww, are you in Speak-mode? Not fair since SL isn't there yet.

but back on topic...

I think youth should be spent exploring reckless sex and emotionally catastrophic relationships, because by the time your 30, you won't have much of a choice in the matter. Nobody wants a society of emotionally stunted adults who never did anything trying to preach to everyone else, ergo, by the time you do want to get married, you'll have a lot of experience in both a)sex, and b) relationships and you might stand a chance of making it last. I always thought everyone should have at least one or two explorations of the reckless kind and a ECR for good measure, but not be burdened by the burn forever. People have to have the emotional maturity to grow from the experiences, which is quite different from just "getting over it". Who wants to associate with those who are just so superior in their "we met in high school and are still so happy after 30 years" types anyways?

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steven lloyd
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by steven lloyd »

quietlywatching84 wrote:
I'm not sure whether I've just been insulted or hit on.


how often does this occur?


:dyinglaughing: These days, the former much more frequently than the latter (particularly around here), but with age and experience comes the wisdom to know when to let undeserved comments roll off one’s back.

quietlywatching84 wrote: I think youth should be spent exploring reckless sex and emotionally catastrophic relationships, because by the time your 30, you won't have much of a choice in the matter. Nobody wants a society of emotionally stunted adults who never did anything trying to preach to everyone else, ergo, by the time you do want to get married, you'll have a lot of experience in both a)sex, and b) relationships and you might stand a chance of making it last.


See. You get it. :127:
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by I Think »

To paraphrase Richard and Mimi Farini,

"Had them climbing up his stairs,
Had them lining up in pairs,
Just to sample his affairs,
And they call him a spoon full of fun".



Amazing how well they knew me, having never met me. teehee.
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Glacier
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by Glacier »

keesa wrote: Who wants to associate with those who are just so superior in their "we met in high school and are still so happy after 30 years" types anyways?

I am sitting here to figure out what you are trying to say here. Given the four options you have set up in your Game Theory example, which scenario(s) is(are) bad in your opinion?
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quietlywatching84
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by quietlywatching84 »

Also, it makes me wonder about the trend related to attitudes toward marriage itself (and related old fashioned "commitment"), and whether it may be declining in importance as a lifetime goal for more and more folk. If so, that may explain why its relationship to the sexual aspect of relationships is seemingly becoming "conflicted", even seen as "recreational". After all, it seems that even having children, particularly large families, is losing its luster too? (raising kids is expensive, as well as interfering with our most "fun" years!) ...As well, what are folks thoughts as to which partner is more likely to drive the bus related to whether to wait until marriage or not, compared to which partner is more likely to see marriage (with or without producing children) as the objective?


I think the whole marriage decline idea is not as bad as played out. I think we just have a lot more spousal relationships without official documentation. I don't think increased rates (or just an increase in reporting) of pre-maritial sex is going to mean a breakdown of a fundamental relationship.

The reasons I don't think marriage or a spousal relationship can be stopped by recreational sex is that the money, time and emotional effort required to maintain an alternative reaches a tipping point, and as people shift priorities it becomes more viable.
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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by NAB »

Hmmm, interesting thoughts Quietly... particularly expanding the concept of "marriage" to include "spousal relationships". Personally, I see them as totally separate things, and inconsistent with the basic discussion here of sex and marriage. "Marriage" after all seems to me a stand alone and special concept and primarily governmental/secular in nature. Were it not so, then I would question why official Same Sex Marriage has become such an issue among the "Rights" crowd.

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Re: Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted

Post by quietlywatching84 »

Hmmm, interesting thoughts Quietly... particularly expanding the concept of "marriage" to include "spousal relationships". Personally, I see them as totally separate things, and inconsistent with the basic discussion here of sex and marriage. "Marriage" after all seems to me a stand alone and special concept and primarily governmental/secular in nature.

Nab


I think you'll have to, there are a lot of people in say the 20-30 year old age range who have one partner, often living together and even have kids who are unmarried and many don't wish to. They are happy with this situation and don't attach any stigma to it. Could this be a move away from a institutional marriage to a purely social one?

I would also suggest, that arguements about marriage cannot be separated from current trends in coupling, as they are so similar, to look at one and not the other is to ignore half the evidence.

Were it not so, then I would question why official Same Sex Marriage has become such an issue among the "Rights" crowd.


Exactly, and I am highly critical and it was the first hint to my ideas above...
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