The emergent church

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fluffy
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Re: The emergent church

Post by fluffy »

cliffy1 wrote:At the core of our reality, life is a solo journey. We may occasionally share our journey, but it is, in the end, only ours to make sense of.... or not. What others think about it is completely irrelevant.


Ah, but that sort of thinking is a major threat to all forms of organized religion. Perhaps that is why they would rather dictate than inspire?
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cliffy1
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Re: The emergent church

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fluffy wrote:Ah, but that sort of thinking is a major threat to all forms of organized religion. Perhaps that is why they would rather dictate than inspire?

Religion has always been about political power. For the sheep, it is about social belonging. Rarely does it have to do with the spiritual enlightenment of their flock.
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concernie
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Re: The emergent church

Post by concernie »

cliffy1 wrote:Religion has always been about political power. For the sheep, it is about social belonging. Rarely does it have to do with the spiritual enlightenment of their flock.


On the contrary, Enlightenment thought and libertinism has always been about political and social control. A man has as many masters as he has vices.
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Re: The emergent church

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concernie wrote:On the contrary, Enlightenment thought and libertinism has always been about political and social control. A man has as many masters as he has vices.

Thanks for proving my point. A religious person has no concept of spiritual enlightenment because that bit of information is usually withheld. Religion is about rules, regulations and unquestioning obedience to doctrine and dogma. Spiritual enlightenment is about the experience of oneness with all of creation.
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fluffy
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Re: The emergent church

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cliffy1 wrote:Religion has always been about political power. For the sheep, it is about social belonging. Rarely does it have to do with the spiritual enlightenment of their flock.


Wherever there are humans involved there will be the results of human weaknesses. It has been said that organized religion has done for true spirituality much the same that Alphagetti did for Italian cuisine. :)

Everyone has the right to choose their own path, some prefer to have that path laid out for them, some do not. I see organized religion somewhat in the same light as trade unions, the basic idea is a noble one, and one for which a need does exist, but eventually the same human qualities that produce that need will seep in and the original idea becomes a cover story for private agendas. It's just the way we are.
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concernie
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Re: The emergent church

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cliffy1 wrote:Thanks for proving my point. A religious person has no concept of spiritual enlightenment because that bit of information is usually withheld. Religion is about rules, regulations and unquestioning obedience to doctrine and dogma. Spiritual enlightenment is about the experience of oneness with all of creation.


The Enlightenment was purely masonic. The Freemasons don't have an agenda, not to mention a track record of controlling people? Come on.
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Re: The emergent church

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concernie wrote:The Enlightenment was purely masonic. The Freemasons don't have an agenda, not to mention a track record of controlling people? Come on.

You really don't know anything about it. I'm talking about the enlightenment that yogis and other adepts have. Even regular people have had them, even I have had a few. It is a moment in time when the ego melts away, when the physical body disappears and a sensation of being connected to the Universe in a way that you actually become the Universe. You become the tree, the cat, the butterfly, you become one with god and all the knowledge of creation flashes through your being. It is only fleeting but it stays with you. It is what religion started out to teach but got caught up in the power and control, the doctrines and the dogma.

Jesus supposedly went out into the wilderness for 40 days and nights. He communed with higher beings, with his demons and came away with an enlightened view of our connection to our creator. He said, that once we woke up to our own creative power, we would surpass anything that he accomplished here. The church has suppressed that bit because we would no longer need them to tell us what to think, how to act and who to worship if we really knew who we are and what we are capable of. But nobody tells you to go out into the wilderness and fight your demons or to communicate directly with the divine. But it is what those who wish to rise above being servants to their masters need to do.

We don't need the intermediaries, even though the church tells you you do. But most people want the security of having someone else taking care of them, spoon feed them their beliefs, pat them on the head and say: "there, there, my child, you are a good boy/girl. Your father loves you, even if you are a screw up."

The path less traveled - a little more difficult and you have to take responsibility for yourself and your relationship with your creator. It is a lonely journey and it is not for meek. It is the hero's journey that Joseph Campbell wrote about, the path that Jesus took, the one he tried to show others how to take. But it is so much easier to sit in the comfort of the pew and let someone else do it for you. You tell me, which path will get you closer to your creator?
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Re: The emergent church

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concernie wrote:The Freemasons don't have an agenda, not to mention a track record of controlling people? Come on.

You don't think organized religion doesn't have an agenda, not to mention a track record of controlling people?
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Re: The emergent church

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To Emergents, Christianity should be:

* Experience over Reason
* Spirituality over Doctrine and Absolutes
* Images over Words
* Feelings over Truth
* Earthly Justice over Salvation
* Social Action over Eternity

You will find that these parallel the core teachings of the New Age movement.


Nebula wrote:You don't think organized religion doesn't have an agenda, not to mention a track record of controlling people?


Christians don't claim that the Church has been perfect. However, the Church is totally upfront and open about salvation and its teachings; whereas, Freemasonry and the occult keep their members in mystery and confusion, promising them enlightenment if they continue in the degrees.

Christianity is religion revealed; the occult is false religion concealed.

Furthermore, Christianity is about liberating people from sin. The Enlightenment, for example, isabout controlling people through their passions, mainly their sexual passions. Former US president Bill Clinton is a perfect example of a puppet being manipulated through his sexual passions.
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Re: The emergent church

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*try again without the personal attack/Jo*
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concernie
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Re: The emergent church

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*try again without the personal attack/if you are RESPONDING to a personal attack, it is your job to REPORT it, not respond to it/Jo*
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cliffy1
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Re: The emergent church

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concernie wrote:Christianity is religion revealed; the occult is false religion concealed.

Furthermore, Christianity is about liberating people from sin. The Enlightenment, for example, isabout controlling people through their passions, mainly their sexual passions. Former US president Bill Clinton is a perfect example of a puppet being manipulated through his sexual passions.


When it comes to enlightenment, we seem to talking about two different things. I'm talking about Eastern philosophy and you seem to be talking about western. As for occult, you use that term in the modern western sense and I'm referring to the ancient practices that are much older but very much a part of the Christian traditions.

I'm not sure, but I have heard rumors, what Bill Clinton practices, but passion is also very much of Christian tradition: the passion of Christ. Passion has a lot more about intense dedication and interest than it has to do with sexuality. Some people are passionate about reading, riding motorcycles or drinking bee, etc.

I was once accused of knowing everything about the New Age (not true) but in my 40 years of studying comparative religions and spiritual paths (including the so called New Age), philosophy, psychology, history and quantum physics, I have learned to keep an open mind about various belief systems. One thing I did find was that there is a common thread throughout them all. And, I contend, that it that common link that is the only important thing about them. Divine revelation was not just given to just one people living in one geographical location in one historical time frame. The divine is is not selective or discriminatory. That is a very human trait.

As Mark Twain once said, "And man created god in his own image." All the gods in the world represent the same divine creative force that permeates all life.how people interpret that has more to do with culture, geographical location and historical time frames. They are talking about the same things in different languages, using different symbols and images. Everybody envisions the divine according to their capacity to understand. There is no right or wrong way and the ways are as varied as their are people on the planet.

While it is on my mind: you don't happen to belong to the Order of St. Francis, do you?
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Re: The emergent church

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a man does not need a special building to give praise and worship to the almighty - in fact it works better for me if you don't use one...
As for the OP, I get what you're after..... when they kick the money changers out of the temple, I may return.
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Re: The emergent church

Post by mustgo »

To reply to the one who is looking for more info on the emergent church I can add some insight. We have been diligently seeking a Godly church here in the okanagan for over 3 years to no avail it is so disturbing to see The Church in such apostate. Please feel free to connect we would love to converse with those who are overcomers
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Re: The emergent church

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Christians tend to scrutinize their church more than themselves. I had gone to new life and evangel in the past for fellowship. BYOT (bring your own tambourine). As a Christian if you are not doing good deeds, helping others and the poor, and helping the community then it is almost irrelevant what church you're in. The church in you is more important than what church you're in. If knowing what church is emergent is difficult, then bust in, make a difference, and maybe get kicked out. Heck if I know which to pick, but, you know what you believe... Are you worried about being affected in any way?
I think there are challenges in defining exactly what an emergent church is. If there are 'many' ways to heaven, I don't recall ever hearing them in my circles.
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