Who created god?

[Viprium]

Well alot of people like to claim God is a stupid "idea" because then the question arises of who created him. Well in all fairness the same question arises even if one doesn't believe in a God of some type. How did the universe just start? Like I mean the way I see it is that it just doesn't make sense to ask either of those questions. It just goes to show our understanding of things is flawed. Don't get me wrong though I do believe in God and I obviously I believe he is incredibly more intelligent then anybody in this physical realm. I also think he could probably be some type of spirit-like being which in my guess would mean different dynamics to how things work and are understood in his realm.

[Born_again]

Well alot of people like to claim God is a stupid "idea" because then the question arises of who created him. Well in all fairness the same question arises even if one doesn't believe in a God of some type. How did the universe just start? Like I mean the way I see it is that it just doesn't make sense to ask either of those questions. It just goes to show our understanding of things is flawed.

(Welcome to the forums!!)
Though fanciful, I'm not entirely sure that you have thought your argument through, at least in the logical sense.
You say that it "doesn't make sense to ask either of those questions", but then go on to correctly identify by your example that "It just goes to show our understanding of things is flawed".

Let's break it down:
Take, "How did the universe just start?"
This is a completely legitimate question to ask, given that we exist, experience and react with the physical Universe in which we are part of. Yes, physically we are a 'bit' of the Universe, and what's more is that we are fully bound by the physical Laws and constants that ultimately define the physical Universe.
Not only have we asked the question, but we actively pursuing the answer. Right now we are capable of creating/mimicking the conditions of the Universe to within the first trillionth of a second of time after the 'Big Bang', physically!! Put in perspective, in only a few hundred years we have now travelled back 13.7 billion years to a point 1 trillionth of a second of the start of expansion! Surely you can see that it will not take a great leap of faith to understand that man will soon be able to break that knowledge barrier, and go beyond the very beginning of this particular Universe.

Now, on to the God bit, and who made Him, and who made Him, etc., etc..
This is where we can apply your "our understanding of things is flawed" without contradiction. It is so simple, you will kick yourself!

Define God's purpose and you will have all of your answers. 100% guaranteed!

So, what's His purpose then?

God is man's very own construct to deal with the gaps in man's knowledge or understanding. Pure and simple.

There are worked examples of this at play everywhere, and at every moment of your day(or night).
Take evolution for example. Man has always had a desire to know 'where we come from', but until recently the quest for a reasonable explanation had confounded us--and we just hate being confounded, don't we? The solution was simple--we create a God of the gaps.

Don't get me wrong though I do believe in God and I obviously I believe he is incredibly more intelligent then anybody in this physical realm. I also think he could probably be some type of spirit-like being which in my guess would mean different dynamics to how things work and are understood in his realm.

That's great, .... good for you. Would you be able to define your God; that is, beyond the realm of your own mind? What I'm getting at is: does a subjective notion that you yourself maintain have any bearing in objective reality? Of course not, otherwise it would be evidenced to all of mankind.

[Viprium]

Let's break it down:
Take, "How did the universe just start?"
This is a completely legitimate question to ask, given that we exist, experience and react with the physical Universe in which we are part of. Yes, physically we are a 'bit' of the Universe, and what's more is that we are fully bound by the physical Laws and constants that ultimately define the physical Universe.
Not only have we asked the question, but we actively pursuing the answer. Right now we are capable of creating/mimicking the conditions of the Universe to within the first trillionth of a second of time after the 'Big Bang', physically!! Put in perspective, in only a few hundred years we have now travelled back 13.7 billion years to a point 1 trillionth of a second of the start of expansion! Surely you can see that it will not take a great leap of faith to understand that man will soon be able to break that knowledge barrier, and go beyond the very beginning of this particular Universe.

God is man's very own construct to deal with the gaps in man's knowledge or understanding. Pure and simple.

There are worked examples of this at play everywhere, and at every moment of your day(or night).
Take evolution for example. Man has always had a desire to know 'where we come from', but until recently the quest for a reasonable explanation had confounded us--and we just hate being confounded, don't we? The solution was simple--we create a God of the gaps.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said its a stupid question to ask. What I meant to say is its a stupid question to try and find the answer to. I should have also been more clear when I was talking about the 'universe' ..by universe I mean everything in existance. Multiverse's haven't actually been properly proven or even defined. First things first, the big bang theory has never been proven and even if it is the truth then there still was something before the big bang happend. Now that something was the 'universe' before the event, ok so now we have the same problem again. How did the pre-big bang universe start? Can you not see its an on going problem? You can never find the start and this is why I believe no humans intelligence level is adequate enough to ever fully answer a question like this. Oh and whats this emulation of the big bang theory about exactly? They recreated the event? Seems off to me, theres no way to know the specifics of what materials etc were involved when this event happend or if it even happend at all.

Sorry for the walls of text. Ok so even if theorys such as this are true it doesn't automatically discredit the idea of God. Remember its GOD not some random genious speculating at Yale. His abilities and intelligence are far beyond anything were aware of yet for some reason people can never seem to mix science with God. The bible doesn't neccesarily state all the specifics of how things started or developed it just gives us story about things that happend but that doesn't mean he wasn't the cause and effect of things like evolution or the big bang, which are still theorys however. The bible is a simple book written in old language which causes complexity in understanding it completely. I'm sure God wasn't intending to talk about things like advanced science in that time. The bible seems to be more about morals and spiritual obligations then about big life answers if nobody has noticed yet.

That's great, .... good for you. Would you be able to define your God; that is, beyond the realm of your own mind? What I'm getting at is: does a subjective notion that you yourself maintain have any bearing in objective reality? Of course not, otherwise it would be evidenced to all of mankind.

I personally believe God is the father of Jesus, the love and the light. I'm honestly not that knowledgable on any of the branches of christianity, catholocism etc but I am a believer and follower of God. One of the main aspects of Gods teachings is to have faith. God doesn't really seem to show people proof until they are already heavy believers because he wants people to have faith. However, demonic activity has been evident through out history. Things like exorcisms and black magic can supply evidence to someone who may be skeptical of religion. I certainly don't suggest getting in to black magic or witch craft but what I'm saying is how could people be performing black magic if this type of information was totally made up by humans? Have you ever heard of a weeji board? Don't get the wrong idea's. Its best to leave things like that alone but I'm just sayin'.. can science back that stuff up?

Anyways thanks for the friendly welcome..

[bcbudrockz69]

well i believe in mother nature and shes been around lot longer than any god, so i win

[Born_again]

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said its a stupid question to ask. What I meant to say is its a stupid question to try and find the answer to.

I would never, ever, ever, subscribe to the notion that finding an answer to anything would be stupid, futile or redundant. LOL I could even get all biblical on you and say, "Seek, and you shall find".

Oh and whats this emulation of the big bang theory about exactly? They recreated the event? Seems off to me, theres no way to know the specifics of what materials etc were involved when this event happend or if it even happend at all.

You should check out what's happening at CERN, and what they are doing with the LHC.
Start off with an explanatory video from Brian Cox, then let your curiosity lead the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67q_2V6xOxE

Ok so even if theorys such as this are true it doesn't automatically discredit the idea of God.

That is very interesting that you felt compelled to make that statement. Interesting indeed.

Remember its GOD not some random genious speculating at Yale. His abilities and intelligence are far beyond anything were aware of yet for some reason people can never seem to mix science with God.

Forgive me, but to me it seems as though you are stating as fact that god is 'unknowable' to us, but at the same time you know of him. I'm officially confused.

Have you ever heard of a weeji board? Don't get the wrong idea's. Its best to leave things like that alone but I'm just sayin'.. can science back that stuff up?

As a matter of fact almost every dormitory of all of the schools I went to had Ouija boards. It was a fun way of scaring the tar out of 'juniors' at night. As for "can science back that stuff up?". What is there to back up? It is a wooden board on which a bunch of people push a pointer around on. Are you claiming that there is something supernatural about the Ouija board?

[bcbudrockz69]

i think the answer may lie in that humans might have to accept that some things just are and not made, its starting to look like the universe expands and collapses over and over .

there doesnt have to be a maker or a starting point , all there needs to be is what is

[Viprium]

Ok so even if theorys such as this are true it doesn't automatically discredit the idea of God.

That is very interesting that you felt compelled to make that statement. Interesting indeed.

Why is that interesting? I'm just wondering what your point of view on that statement is..

Have you ever heard of a weeji board? Don't get the wrong idea's. Its best to leave things like that alone but I'm just sayin'.. can science back that stuff up?

As a matter of fact almost every dormitory of all of the schools I went to had Ouija boards. It was a fun way of scaring the tar out of 'juniors' at night. As for "can science back that stuff up?". What is there to back up? It is a wooden board on which a bunch of people push a pointer around on. Are you claiming that there is something supernatural about the Ouija board?

I've actually never heard of an Ouija board.. but weeji boards seem to be able to move the 'pointer' on their own. Theres a ton of spells and what not out their as well. I've never messed around with any of that kind of stuff myself but I've heard alot of stories from friends.

[Born_again]

Ok so even if theorys such as this are true it doesn't automatically discredit the idea of God.

That is very interesting that you felt compelled to make that statement. Interesting indeed.

Why is that interesting? I'm just wondering what your point of view on that statement is..

I found it interesting because your statement was an passive aggressive/defensive positioning.

When I brought you up to date with current scientific understanding of conditions within our universe just nanoseconds after the beginning of the expansion(Big Bang), I made no reference to god or gods whatsoever. You automatically went on the defensive on behalf of your god. Generally, we only get defensive if we feel threatened, true? As I personally did not threaten you, one can only assume that it was the increase in your own knowledge that subconsciously spurred the "it doesn't automatically discredit the idea of God" statement.

This has direct parallels to 16th and 17th Century scientific discoveries(Copernicus and Galileo Galilei, respectively) that proposed a heliocentric model for our solar system. This proposal directly challenged the Church's beliefs that the planet Earth was the centre of the universe. Galileo was subsequently tortured until he retracted his scientific proofs, and imprisoned for the rest of his life.

I've actually never heard of an Ouija board.. but weeji boards seem to be able to move the 'pointer' on their own. Theres a ton of spells and what not out their as well. I've never messed around with any of that kind of stuff myself but I've heard alot of stories from friends.

Ouija is not only the correct spelling for what you have phonetically scribed as "weeji", but it is the original manufacturers Trademark for the board.
You can find out more here.

If you want to know why it appears that the planchette is moving in a "spirit-guided" way, then you should make yourself familiar with the ideomotor effect.

Would I be correct in assuming that you are superstitious by nature?

[Viprium]

I found it interesting because your statement was an passive aggressive/defensive positioning.

When I brought you up to date with current scientific understanding of conditions within our universe just nanoseconds after the beginning of the expansion(Big Bang), I made no reference to god or gods whatsoever. You automatically went on the defensive on behalf of your god. Generally, we only get defensive if we feel threatened, true? As I personally did not threaten you, one can only assume that it was the increase in your own knowledge that subconsciously spurred the "it doesn't automatically discredit the idea of God" statement.

This has direct parallels to 16th and 17th Century scientific discoveries(Copernicus and Galileo Galilei, respectively) that proposed a heliocentric model for our solar system. This proposal directly challenged the Church's beliefs that the planet Earth was the centre of the universe. Galileo was subsequently tortured until he retracted his scientific proofs, and imprisoned for the rest of his life.

You have the wrong perspective on my statement. I was just throwing those statements out there because you were talking about all these scientific theorys and what not and then you later went on to say that God is an idea that has been made up by people to fill some gaps. This is mainly why I said science doesn't neccesarily contradict God and vice versa, just to be clear. I was not trying to be defensive towards you at all actually. Also keep in mind I didn't even bother to read any of the articles/video's you've supplied. I wont bother because I know a reenactment of the things that happend a second after the big bang theory is impossible no matter what technology we have. This would simply be due to the lack of presence at the time. You assume way too many things my friend and yes I know, this must sound hilarious from your point of view considering I'm a "believer" or what ever corny name they call us people these days.

Ouija is not only the correct spelling for what you have phonetically scribed as "weeji", but it is the original manufacturers Trademark for the board.
You can find out more here.

If you want to know why it appears that the planchette is moving in a "spirit-guided" way, then you should make yourself familiar with the ideomotor effect.

Would I be correct in assuming that you are superstitious by nature?

To be honest.. I believe I was thinking of some other kind of board used for black magic. The one I was recalling you don't even put your hand on and it moves and no, I'm not superstitious. If your an atheist thats fine by me. I'm certainly not the type to go around and try convert people but I'm just using common sense. Does science really go against God? In my books, absolutely not. It seems as if alot of atheists are so stubborn in their ways that logic can escape them at times. I mean, why does one who embraces science and stuff have to automatically be an atheist? Anyways, theres a ton of solid evidence that witch craft/black magik does occur and is unexplainable by nearly any type of science. I use to be an atheist myself for awhile until I realized its pointless, among other things, I've just experiened too much in young life to not believe. I'm just saying its not a joke bro, I don't know if everything in the bible is exactly true or if all the fine details are correct but thats not what really matters. Its about the concepts and the basis of what God preaches. As long as your intentions are good and you follow the very basic outline what he teaches your fine. I hate people who argue about things like catholocism vs christianity etc. I hate to preach but Satans biggest trick is getting people to believe he doesn't exist.

[steven lloyd]

Does science really go against God? In my books, absolutely not.

Surprisingly to some, science and belief in something unexplainable and beyond understanding that could be called God are not mutually exclusive. To address the question “Who created God?”, the renowned physicist, Stephen Hawkings (an agnostic/atheist), proposed that his theory that time began with the creation of the universe could support the idea of an infinite God. This idea, of course, is hard to grasp. It means that God was never “created”. He simply always existed, exists now and will always exist – even if the universe itself is finite (buddy’s idea that the universe begins with a bang, expands, then shrinks and ends with a bang and then starts all over has some merit and is actually quite a popular theory). Anyways, enjoy yourself while you can on here.

[don_pepe]

"Anyways, theres a ton of solid evidence that witch craft/black magik does occur and is unexplainable by nearly any type of science."

Check out The Jame Randi Foundation, they'll pay $1,000,000 for conclusive evidence of the paranormal. Lots of people have tried but so far nobody has collected.

"Its about the concepts and the basis of what God preaches. As long as your intentions are good and you follow the very basic outline what he teaches your fine."

The reason I stopped being a Christian is because I found the god of the bible to be completely immoral. Here is a sample:

Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Peter 2:18 Servants (slaves in modern translations), be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

These are a small sample of the concepts God preaches. Killing women and children, rape, killing homosexuals, oppression of women, and slavery.

[steven lloyd]

These are a small sample of the concepts God preaches.

Sigh. So you believe God wrote that stuff. Interesting. I'm outta here.

[don_pepe]

Sigh. So you believe God wrote that stuff. Interesting. I'm outta here.

No I believe that this was written by ignorant barbaric men. If there was a god he would be infinitely more intelligent and compassionate than the character in the bible. I can appreciate some of the concepts put forth by deists or pantheists but really can't understand how Christians can only pick parts of the bible that are pleasant while ignoring passages like these.

[Mr Danksworth]

'The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish'. Einstein

[strwbrrydvl]

'The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish'. Einstein

Yes! An imagined character in a book of stories. Humans are the creator of the "Creator".