Mormons

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Big ned
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Re: Mormons

Post by Big ned »

No I don't regret saying that. Your similarities are things that were common knowledge or at least suppositions of what may have been... at that time period ( as you stated). The BoM is a religious text and despite corresponding in suppositions that people in America are of Middle east descent( very few) there really is nothing else there. THis person dwells only on the circumstances and similarties between america and middle eastern religious practises. The BoM not only agrees with that, it goes far beyond that to a point that is inexplicable.

By the way, Roberts was saying these points are concerns that other people might bring up, not concerns that he had.

As to the Bible, The Nephites had up through Isaiah with them and Jesus taught them the same things he taught in the middle east. Not surprizing there are similarities or even exact quotes.
Please come with something new if you come at all.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Mormons

Post by grammafreddy »

Here's something new I would like your opinion about, Ned ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Is this "acceptable"? As a supporter and follower of a particular church/faith, how do you determine if it is or not?
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bcbudrockz69
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Re: Mormons

Post by bcbudrockz69 »

grammafreddy wrote:Here's something new I would like your opinion about, Ned ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Is this "acceptable"? As a supporter and follower of a particular church/faith, how do you determine if it is or not?

i do not even know ware to begin on those camps , so i wont even start , but i will say, im sure theres future republicans being hatched in those camps lol
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Boda
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Re: Mormons

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grammafreddy wrote:Here's something new I would like your opinion about, Ned ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Is this "acceptable"? As a supporter and follower of a particular church/faith, how do you determine if it is or not?



Wow! What a clip.

Religous conditioning is paramount to the very survival of these massive corporations we call "church" and it's going to be very difficult to legislate against this type of abuse when the parents of the children being abused sanction this form of brain washing by allowing (forcing) their children to attend.
But! free enterprise is the North American way and who can blame these CEO's (church leaders) for recruiting to expand their business. Like any company if your not growing your going backwards.

Praise the Lord! Just remember it won't get you where you want to go unless you put your nickel in the pot.

Edited for grammer
Big ned
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Re: Mormons

Post by Big ned »

Gramma Freddy.. This kind of stuff makes me ill. This is mass hysteria mixed with peer pressure. This pentacostal type speaking in tongues and making little kids cry just has no place in society.

I believe ( as does my church) that a persons salvation is individual and when you make those decisions it is by gaining as much information as you can and then praying and pondering what you know. It is a quiet time when the spirit speaks to you... this kind of brain washing has no place in true religion (in my opinion). So no.. I don't condone this at all.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Mormons

Post by grammafreddy »

Big ned wrote:Gramma Freddy.. This kind of stuff makes me ill. This is mass hysteria mixed with peer pressure. This pentacostal type speaking in tongues and making little kids cry just has no place in society.

I believe ( as does my church) that a persons salvation is individual and when you make those decisions it is by gaining as much information as you can and then praying and pondering what you know. It is a quiet time when the spirit speaks to you... this kind of brain washing has no place in true religion (in my opinion). So no.. I don't condone this at all.


Does your church tell kids they will not go to heaven if they do something against your church's beliefs? Does it tell them Jesus or God will not love them if they do not follow your version of the bible? Does it use fear to influence them? Do you use Satan as a form of punishment? Why is your kind of brainwashing better than any other church's?
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Big ned
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Re: Mormons

Post by Big ned »

No on all of those counts. We do not have a traditional "heaven/hell" in our religion.
As a matter of fact, we teach that everyone here on earth earned the right to be here and all will be rewarded with a "degree of glory" in the next life.

We teach young children the difference between right and wrong, using stories from the scriptures. We also teach them that despite doing something wrong, they can take advantage of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and repent of those sins. We teach that we are all sons and daughters of God (our heavenly father) and that he loves each of us unconditionally.

There is no brain washing in our church... a famous quote from Joseph Smith is "teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves."

We are all here to show that we can follow the teachings of Christ... none of us are perfect, so if that were the requirement to get into traditional Christianity's "Heaven".. it would be very empty.

We do teach that Satan will tempt us and try to do what's not right and we should do our best to resisit those temptations. Now if that is brain washing, you have a weird definition of brain washing.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Mormons

Post by grammafreddy »

If Satan tempts and the people succumb to temptations, what happens to them then?

Are your church principles different than other church's principles and beliefs? What makes yours any better than any other? Or any more "right"? Why should someone be a Mormon instead of Musim or Catholic or Lutheran or Buddhist? Why are those ones "wrong" and not the real word of god or jesus or whoever?
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Born_again
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Re: Mormons

Post by Born_again »

Whoah! GrammaFreddy!! There's no need to lump Buddhism in with that lot--its more a philosophy than a religion; and one that TRULY embraces peace and harmony as one of its tenets. [-X
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bcbudrockz69
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Re: Mormons

Post by bcbudrockz69 »

Born_again wrote:Whoah! GrammaFreddy!! There's no need to lump Buddhism in with that lot--its more a philosophy than a religion; and one that TRULY embraces peace and harmony as one of its tenets. [-X

lol gf has her war boots on, just sit back n watch the show :dyinglaughing:
Big ned
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Re: Mormons

Post by Big ned »

THe quick answer to that is simply that our religion claims to be restored, not founded or organized by men.

When Christ was on earth (despite what some might say) he did organize a church. He then appointed (through laying on of hands for priesthood authority) a prophet (Peter) and 12 apostles.
We believe that the Priesthood authority was taken from the earth with the death of the apostles. The Catholics claim that is was not (even though the Pope doesn't claim to be a Prophet).

We believe Christ restored the church through Joseph Smith with the same organization that existed in ancient times (ie apostle, prophet, etc.) This creates an interesting conundrum and is probably why mainstream Christianity is hesitant to call Mormons Christians. If they acknowledge us as legitimate, it deligitimizes their claim. Since the majority of protestant churches (all really) are a break off from Catholicism because of some principle they didn't agree with, they really can't claim priesthood authority directly from Christ.

As to those who sin and don't repent, they will not reach the highest degree of glory, but they will reach a degree of glory and certainly won't "burn in hell" as many Christians claim.

Now isn't that a little better than "it's either heaven or hell, nothing inbetween"? Would a loving God really suggest those who are born, never heard of Christ in their life, and then die are bound to eternal damnation? No, that's not the way it is according to our restored doctrine.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Mormons

Post by grammafreddy »

Born_again wrote:Whoah! GrammaFreddy!! There's no need to lump Buddhism in with that lot--its more a philosophy than a religion; and one that TRULY embraces peace and harmony as one of its tenets. [-X


http://www.amazon.com/Zen-War-Peace-Lib ... 482&sr=1-1
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grammafreddy
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Re: Mormons

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Big ned wrote:THe quick answer to that is simply that our religion claims to be restored, not founded or organized by men.

When Christ was on earth (despite what some might say) he did organize a church. He then appointed (through laying on of hands for priesthood authority) a prophet (Peter) and 12 apostles.
We believe that the Priesthood authority was taken from the earth with the death of the apostles. The Catholics claim that is was not (even though the Pope doesn't claim to be a Prophet).

We believe Christ restored the church through Joseph Smith with the same organization that existed in ancient times (ie apostle, prophet, etc.) This creates an interesting conundrum and is probably why mainstream Christianity is hesitant to call Mormons Christians. If they acknowledge us as legitimate, it deligitimizes their claim. Since the majority of protestant churches (all really) are a break off from Catholicism because of some principle they didn't agree with, they really can't claim priesthood authority directly from Christ.

As to those who sin and don't repent, they will not reach the highest degree of glory, but they will reach a degree of glory and certainly won't "burn in hell" as many Christians claim.

Now isn't that a little better than "it's either heaven or hell, nothing inbetween"? Would a loving God really suggest those who are born, never heard of Christ in their life, and then die are bound to eternal damnation? No, that's not the way it is according to our restored doctrine.


So, your church is based on claims that a man made so he could be the head of a bunch of people called Mormons.

Does a person have to be a Mormon to reach "the highest degree of glory"?

In a way, your church is the same as any other church - you threaten the children with a lesser "degree of glory" instead of a "hell" but it, in any case, makes children afraid. You just call it something different. Do you teach them they have to be Mormons to achieve the highest degree of glory?

***

Any person who follows the tenets of any religion will spin the "truths" about that religion. They may use the bible as their "holy book" and if they do, they each have their interpretation of what that book says - even though it is exactly the same book - a book written by men. Other religions have their own books which is different than the bible - and all of those are also written by mere men - who also interpret their books in different ways. Each one says that their way is the only way and that the others must be annihilated and/or conquered.

Then each of these groups of people get a hatred on for the other groups and want power over more and more people, so they try to take land and people away from the other groups, making war, killing and raping women and children in the process.

They control their people by playing "mind games" with them and instill fear about heaven and hell and great glories and even wonderful promises of many virgins. Many of these religions do not treat all their members as equals and decree men superior and women chattel. Some abuse women and children in horrific ways in order to control them. Some have adopted a vengeful "high person" or "god" who punishes people if they do not follow the "rules" of that religion. They teach that their "god" is only good to the ones who follow their particular cult - and not any other. The sole purpose of any of these groups of people is to control people for power and greed.

Some of these groups of men say that it is bad to sin but that sin will be forgiven if you do certain things (example: saying 5 hail marys) and then everything is all hunk-dory again and they can go out and sin all over again. Just keep doing the hail mary thing and you'll still go to the highest glory.

The whole religion thing is based on mind games - all kinds of different ones, but their end objectives are to bring power, riches and glory to the ones at the top of the pile. All things beneath that are geared to enforcing the rules of their cults - even so far as to do terrible travesties against their own people and people of other cults to instill fear and to gain greater power.

Religions are just men and their games - one of the biggest, richest games in the history of the world. The people are merely their brainwashed puppets.
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bcbudrockz69
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Re: Mormons

Post by bcbudrockz69 »

grammafreddy wrote:
Big ned wrote:THe quick answer to that is simply that our religion claims to be restored, not founded or organized by men.

When Christ was on earth (despite what some might say) he did organize a church. He then appointed (through laying on of hands for priesthood authority) a prophet (Peter) and 12 apostles.
We believe that the Priesthood authority was taken from the earth with the death of the apostles. The Catholics claim that is was not (even though the Pope doesn't claim to be a Prophet).

We believe Christ restored the church through Joseph Smith with the same organization that existed in ancient times (ie apostle, prophet, etc.) This creates an interesting conundrum and is probably why mainstream Christianity is hesitant to call Mormons Christians. If they acknowledge us as legitimate, it deligitimizes their claim. Since the majority of protestant churches (all really) are a break off from Catholicism because of some principle they didn't agree with, they really can't claim priesthood authority directly from Christ.

As to those who sin and don't repent, they will not reach the highest degree of glory, but they will reach a degree of glory and certainly won't "burn in hell" as many Christians claim.

Now isn't that a little better than "it's either heaven or hell, nothing inbetween"? Would a loving God really suggest those who are born, never heard of Christ in their life, and then die are bound to eternal damnation? No, that's not the way it is according to our restored doctrine.


So, your church is based on claims that a man made so he could be the head of a bunch of people called Mormons.

Does a person have to be a Mormon to reach "the highest degree of glory"?

In a way, your church is the same as any other church - you threaten the children with a lesser "degree of glory" instead of a "hell" but it, in any case, makes children afraid. You just call it something different. Do you teach them they have to be Mormons to achieve the highest degree of glory?

***

Any person who follows the tenets of any religion will spin the "truths" about that religion. They may use the bible as their "holy book" and if they do, they each have their interpretation of what that book says - even though it is exactly the same book - a book written by men. Other religions have their own books which is different than the bible - and all of those are also written by mere men - who also interpret their books in different ways. Each one says that their way is the only way and that the others must be annihilated and/or conquered.

Then each of these groups of people get a hatred on for the other groups and want power over more and more people, so they try to take land and people away from the other groups, making war, killing and raping women and children in the process.

They control their people by playing "mind games" with them and instill fear about heaven and hell and great glories and even wonderful promises of many virgins. Many of these religions do not treat all their members as equals and decree men superior and women chattel. Some abuse women and children in horrific ways in order to control them. Some have adopted a vengeful "high person" or "god" who punishes people if they do not follow the "rules" of that religion. They teach that their "god" is only good to the ones who follow their particular cult - and not any other. The sole purpose of any of these groups of people is to control people for power and greed.

Some of these groups of men say that it is bad to sin but that sin will be forgiven if you do certain things (example: saying 5 hail marys) and then everything is all hunk-dory again and they can go out and sin all over again. Just keep doing the hail mary thing and you'll still go to the highest glory.

The whole religion thing is based on mind games - all kinds of different ones, but their end objectives are to bring power, riches and glory to the ones at the top of the pile. All things beneath that are geared to enforcing the rules of their cults - even so far as to do terrible travesties against their own people and people of other cults to instill fear and to gain greater power.

Religions are just men and their games - one of the biggest, richest games in the history of the world. The people are merely their brainwashed puppets.




lol try telling that to a catholic :coffeecanuck:
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grammafreddy
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Re: Mormons

Post by grammafreddy »

bcbudrockz69 wrote:
lol try telling that to a catholic


I just did.
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