Church and children

[1nick]

this seems to be a volatile topic as I broached this subject in another thread and one poster(very religious his words) couldn't handle the subject matter.
to me it seems a matter of free will or lack there of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

[Mr. Personality]

I didn't watch the whole thing, but that seems to me to be a pretty extreme example of religion, and one religion in particular at that.

[steven lloyd]

Psychologists term this phenomena of acute overgeneralization to form extreme stereotypical assumptions as the availability heuristic (a phenomenon - which can result in a cognitive bias - in which people predict the frequency of an event, or a proportion within a population, based on how easily an example can be brought to mind) allowing them to make ridiculous presumptions of entire groups of people. Don’t tell them it is a thinking error though. Atheists don't make thinking errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

[Glacier]

Am I having a déjà vu, or is this the fourth time I've seen this "Jesus Camp" video posted on Castanet since May?

[kgcayenne]

Am I having a déjà vu, or is this the fourth time I've seen this "Jesus Camp" video posted on Castanet since May?

Who posted it the other times?

Something a lot of people fail to recognize is that there are imbalanced people all over the place raising children. No one religion or culture is immune to imbalances. I have known a family that browbeat their children to the point where they attended religious services so that they shut the parents up, after which the children sprung like tightly wound coils. I have also known families (of the same religious affiliation) raise their children so that they respect what God's standards are and make decisions that bring joy and fulfilment to their lives. The difference (IMO) is that one type of family is ‘religious’, and the other is spiritual, respectively. Additionally, there are surely cases of whacked out parents having children that grow up and become well-adjusted adults who vow to never repeat their parents' mistakes, and cases of wonderful parents having whacked out children. Every child grows into an adult and WILL make their own choices and decisions, sometimes to the parents credit, sometimes to their discredit.

So... what is the excuse when screwed up children come from athiest/agnostic parentage?

[1nick]

yes this looks like the worst case senerio of children in church.
but it doesn't negate the fact that this taking place.for me its difficult to watch.
on the other end of the spetrum is telling a 2yr old there's a god,hell,talking snake,and burning for eternity if they don't believe in jesus christ.

[Mr. Personality]

yes this looks like the worst case senerio of children in church.
but it doesn't negate the fact that this taking place.for me its difficult to watch.
on the other end of the spetrum is telling a 2yr old there's a god,hell,talking snake,and burning for eternity if they don't believe in jesus christ.

Are you against religion or just Christianity?

The fact of the matter is that yes, this is happening. However, it is not every religious (or spiritual, however you would like to put it) parent who does this. In fact, I believe (and no, I don't have any studies or links or youtube videos to back this up) it would be the vast minority that this occurs with.
A lot of people like to look at the most zealous of religious folk and pretend that's how it is for everyone. It isn't. I've even had one person try to tell me Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely forbid their children to marry outside the religion. If that were true, I wouldn't be here or, my mother would not be a JW now. Thing is, I am and she is.
Stereotyping is fun, regardless of what group, but when you start to really take it seriously and believe that every religious person is a brainwashed nut (or that every black person is a thief or every mexican a day-labourer) you run into some dangerous territory. I can't deny that these sorts of camps exist. They do. But you can't seriously believe this is the status quo for all religion. That's just stupid.

...after which the children sprung like tightly wound coils...

That has always been one of my favourite analogies.

[steven lloyd]

So... what is the excuse when screwed up children come from athiest/agnostic parentage?

Poverty, alcoholism and addiction, violence and abuse (physical, emotional, psychological and sexual), social isolation, inbreeding, genetic predisposition to mental illness, etc., etc., etc.

[steven lloyd]

Stereotyping is fun, regardless of what group, but when you start to really take it seriously and believe that every religious person is a brainwashed nut (or that every black person is a thief or every mexican a day-labourer) you run into some dangerous territory. I can't deny that these sorts of camps exist. They do. But you can't seriously believe this is the status quo for all religion. That's just stupid.

Stereotyping is fun, but not when you want to be taken seriously as an intelligent person.

[Mr. Personality]

Stereotyping is fun, regardless of what group, but when you start to really take it seriously and believe that every religious person is a brainwashed nut (or that every black person is a thief or every mexican a day-labourer) you run into some dangerous territory. I can't deny that these sorts of camps exist. They do. But you can't seriously believe this is the status quo for all religion. That's just stupid.

Stereotyping is fun, but not when you want to be taken seriously as an intelligent person.

Exactly. A joke is a joke and stereotypes (including those of groups I would be considered a member) are pretty hilarious to me. With that said to take them seriously or use them as an argument in a real world conversation is ridiculous, as it seems to me has been done with the above video.

[1nick]

yes this looks like the worst case senerio of children in church.
but it doesn't negate the fact that this taking place.for me its difficult to watch.
on the other end of the spetrum is telling a 2yr old there's a god,hell,talking snake,and burning for eternity if they don't believe in jesus christ.

Are you against religion or just Christianity?

The fact of the matter is that yes, this is happening. However, it is not every religious (or spiritual, however you would like to put it) parent who does this. In fact, I believe (and no, I don't have any studies or links or youtube videos to back this up) it would be the vast minority that this occurs with.
A lot of people like to look at the most zealous of religious folk and pretend that's how it is for everyone. It isn't. I've even had one person try to tell me Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely forbid their children to marry outside the religion. If that were true, I wouldn't be here or, my mother would not be a JW now. Thing is, I am and she is.
Stereotyping is fun, regardless of what group, but when you start to really take it seriously and believe that every religious person is a brainwashed nut (or that every black person is a thief or every mexican a day-labourer) you run into some dangerous territory. I can't deny that these sorts of camps exist. They do. But you can't seriously believe this is the status quo for all religion. That's just stupid.

I'm not against any religion everyone has freedom believe in what they like.
I don't believe and have the freedom to do so.
its the freewill of children that I believe is a problem in regards to religion.
they've no choice,and in many cases no exposer to an alternate view of the world they live in until they hit the public school system.

[steven lloyd]

Stereotyping is fun, but not when you want to be taken seriously as an intelligent person.

Exactly. A joke is a joke and stereotypes (including those of groups I would be considered a member) are pretty hilarious to me. With that said to take them seriously or use them as an argument in a real world conversation is ridiculous, as it seems to me has been done with the above video.

Agreed again. Religion, unions and union workers, welfare recipients, alcoholics, drug addicts and homeless people – all subject to vast over generalized conclusions based on erroneous stereotype and rhetoric in place of actual learning and investigation. While it has its place in joke-making, it is also very commonly presumed to be an informed opinion.

[Mr. Personality]

Are you against religion or just Christianity?

The fact of the matter is that yes, this is happening. However, it is not every religious (or spiritual, however you would like to put it) parent who does this. In fact, I believe (and no, I don't have any studies or links or youtube videos to back this up) it would be the vast minority that this occurs with.
A lot of people like to look at the most zealous of religious folk and pretend that's how it is for everyone. It isn't. I've even had one person try to tell me Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely forbid their children to marry outside the religion. If that were true, I wouldn't be here or, my mother would not be a JW now. Thing is, I am and she is.
Stereotyping is fun, regardless of what group, but when you start to really take it seriously and believe that every religious person is a brainwashed nut (or that every black person is a thief or every mexican a day-labourer) you run into some dangerous territory. I can't deny that these sorts of camps exist. They do. But you can't seriously believe this is the status quo for all religion. That's just stupid.

I'm not against any religion everyone has freedom believe in what they like.
I don't believe and have the freedom to do so.
its the freewill of children that I believe is a problem in regards to religion.
they've no choice,and in many cases no exposer to an alternate view of the world they live in until they hit the public school system.

Isn't that exactly what the public school system is for though? Every parent is going to teach their child what the parent believes to be true or right. Who are you to say it should be otherwise?

[Captain Awesome]

I find it strange when people go on a crusade against Christianity and use Bible Camp movie as one of the arguments "Look what they do to the children!". This seems to be a very extreme case of religious education. I have nothing against Christianity in its normal form. Just like I have nothing against Islam unless people start blowing each other with C4 for Allah.

[1nick]

Are you against religion or just Christianity?

The fact of the matter is that yes, this is happening. However, it is not every religious (or spiritual, however you would like to put it) parent who does this. In fact, I believe (and no, I don't have any studies or links or youtube videos to back this up) it would be the vast minority that this occurs with.
A lot of people like to look at the most zealous of religious folk and pretend that's how it is for everyone. It isn't. I've even had one person try to tell me Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely forbid their children to marry outside the religion. If that were true, I wouldn't be here or, my mother would not be a JW now. Thing is, I am and she is.
Stereotyping is fun, regardless of what group, but when you start to really take it seriously and believe that every religious person is a brainwashed nut (or that every black person is a thief or every mexican a day-labourer) you run into some dangerous territory. I can't deny that these sorts of camps exist. They do. But you can't seriously believe this is the status quo for all religion. That's just stupid.

I'm not against any religion everyone has freedom believe in what they like.
I don't believe and have the freedom to do so.
its the freewill of children that I believe is a problem in regards to religion.
they've no choice,and in many cases no exposer to an alternate view of the world they live in until they hit the public school system.

Isn't that exactly what the public school system is for though? Every parent is going to teach their child what the parent believes to be true or right. Who are you to say it should be otherwise?

I don't recall saying it should be otherwise.
no one could tell me how to raise my kids.
I don't care how many times jesus camp has been posted here
that particular religous group needs to be exposed at every opportunity
and in my posting of it you think I'm stereotyping all religion thats just stoopid
as in another thread what would society be like if children weren't exposed to religion until they could make their own informed choices?