My View On Life

[Homeownertoo]

Jews are not a race. They are perhaps best defined as a civilization.

Wow...

Talk about chasing butterflies...

My original comment about Jewish/Judaic folks was mentioned among other religious groups to illustrate how off track religion can be from having actual faith.

Why were those other groups not similarly latched onto and discussed??

As witnessed by the last few posts one can see how easily humans are led astray about true faith by opinion and half truths especially when the "Doubting Thomases" are leading the pack into the fray...

It isn't just my opinion that Jews are a distinct peoples when the facts are good enough to be mentioned thosands of years ago in the bible and good enough for the UN to return the Jews to their biblical homeland after the attempt of mass extinction of Jewish peoples by the Nazis; than that historical opinion is good enough for me. These "opinions" were put forth long before I was born.

More correctly the Israelite/Hassidic/Ashkenazi peoples can be classified as a sub-"race" of Caucasians (hence Georgian homeland notions), much like our native aboriginal cultures in North america can be classified as a sub-race of the Oriental "race".

Native aboriginals however are as distinct an ethnocultural group from their parent race as the Jewish people are from other Caucasoids.

Were they not, the Chinese would have a legal claim to North and South America.

Is that where some of you are going with this?? Islamists??

What a weird response. Just what are you responding to?

As for specifics, I never denied the Jews were a "people", distinct or otherwise. I pointed out they were not a race, or even a "sub-race", whatever that is, and trying to enlist the UN to this cause isn't going to get you anywhere. The Jews were accorded a homeland for a variety of reasons of pragmatism, dating back to the Balfour Declaration and building upon that over succeeding decades. The Holocaust was, at best, the trigger for the UN to accede to the formation of homelands for both the Jews and the Palestinians on lands that had been mandated for that purpose following WWI.

What I did say, and supported it with authoritative opinion, is that the Jews constitute a civilization (which you apparently never disputed), though I'd also be happy with ethnocultural group as long as we recognize the limitations of such a characterization. Your comparison of Jews to native aboriginals is well off the mark, though, for a variety of reasons, not least that a Jew, and not aboriginals, can be of any ethnocultural group or race. And the Hebrews were racially and genetically undistinguished from their cousins throughout what is called the Fertile Crescent.

[strwbrrydvl]

I really was a hardcore atheist when I was younger. I was like 16-17 when I was an atheist and I'm 19 now. .

OMG...sorry...but this really made me laugh.
When you were younger?? TWO years ago ???????
But...now you're mature, and you've found Jesus...and you've learned all there is to learn about the world and religion...at 19

I had a chuckle too, how does one, especially a teen, go from a "hardcore atheist" to a Christian seemingly overnight? Viprium, did you have a life altering experience that made you see the so-called light? Or is this new found love of the Christian 'God' a passing phase for you? Since you did say that you were a conspiracy theorist but not anymore in your OP it seems like your beliefs change with the seasons... And that's okay - you're still so young. Take the time now to research and experience all sorts of faith and decide what feels right for you. Who knows, you may end up truly being a Buddhist! Don't attach labels on yourself until you know in your heart what your permanent beliefs are.

[Corneliousrooster]

5vp - Yup; and...

A case could be made for the symbolic texts of our cave man ancestors from 16-30,000+ years ago.

Where did they get their inspiration??

My 3 year old nephew has some pretty elaborate drawings and stories too.....perhaps it is human nature to use stories and images in relation to those stories as a means of explaining things that we don't understand or that could never be possible (we have fantasy authors and artists to this very day - who is to say that the writings on the wall of the cave are to be taken literal? - a tad presumptuous don't you think????)

I would wager storytelling predates the bible, the notion of a god, oral language, and the self awareness to even realize that a "story" was even being made up.

The notion of truth would arrive after story telling but "trust" was there from inception as a natural disposition of humans - not too hard to shape minds to believe in something (especially young ones) - i too once expected a jolly red man with a white beard to come down my chimney and owe it all to my parents and extended family and friends and society in general for "keeping it convincing" while my brain wasn't fully developed -

i would be curious to see a couple of generations continue to perpetuate the myth without informing the young ones or continuing to portray santa as an absolute truth to see what percentage of the population still believed in Santa 20 years from now - i imagine the results to be similar to what the Aswang is to the phillipines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz5cYcy5 ... r_embedded

[tryscotty]

Glad to see my thread got some people chattin'. ...and yes I really was a hardcore atheist when I was younger. I was like 16-17 when I was an atheist and I'm 19 now. Anyways alot of my main points were to not buy every little theory you read on the internet and maybe even give Jesus a chance.

You'll have to excuse certain people. As a young person you go through periods where you feel strongly about something and then you don't. Laughing at your comments show a lack of self esteem from some. Its good that you at least think about what you believe in. Many people don't even do that. Don't let the haters get you down. Even atheist agree that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. Its too bad the ones who do, don't comment here. 1Peter 5:7

[steven lloyd]

You'll have to excuse certain people. As a young person you go through periods where you feel strongly about something and then you don't. Laughing at your comments show a lack of self esteem from some. Its good that you at least think about what you believe in. Many people don't even do that. Don't let the haters get you down. Even atheist agree that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. Its too bad the ones who do, don't comment here. 1Peter 5:7

I looked up 1Peter 5:7 and it didn't say what you posted. What version do you have ?

[tryscotty]

It wasn't the golden rule, thats in Mt 7:12 as you read 1 Peter says God cares for us. I wanted to share that with him.

[RR24K]

Please try when you use brokening up pieces of the bible stay within the context of the writings.

1 Peter 5: 5-9

5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,

7 casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.

8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.

Mt 7: 8-12

8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

9 "Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?

10 "Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?

11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

12 "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

[janalta]

You'll have to excuse certain people. As a young person you go through periods where you feel strongly about something and then you don't. Laughing at your comments show a lack of self esteem from some. Its good that you at least think about what you believe in. Many people don't even do that. Don't let the haters get you down. Even atheist agree that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. Its too bad the ones who do, don't comment here. 1Peter 5:7

Oh please...a lack of self esteem....haters????
Pretty judgemental...for a Christian...aren't you?

I would certainly expect people to find humor in my posts if I stated that "when I was younger - which was two years ago...."

[5VP]

You'll have to excuse certain people. As a young person you go through periods where you feel strongly about something and then you don't. Laughing at your comments show a lack of self esteem from some. Its good that you at least think about what you believe in. Many people don't even do that. Don't let the haters get you down. Even atheist agree that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. Its too bad the ones who do, don't comment here. 1Peter 5:7

Oh please...a lack of self esteem....haters????
Pretty judgemental...for a Christian...aren't you?

I would certainly expect people to find humor in my posts if I stated that "when I was younger - which was two years ago...."

Please try when you use brokening up pieces of the bible stay within the context of the writings.

1 Peter 5: 5-9

5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,

7 casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.

8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.

Mt 7: 8-12

8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

9 "Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?

10 "Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?

11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

12 "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

It wasn't the golden rule, thats in Mt 7:12 as you read 1 Peter says God cares for us. I wanted to share that with him.

5vp - Yup; and...

A case could be made for the symbolic texts of our cave man ancestors from 16-30,000+ years ago.

Where did they get their inspiration??

My 3 year old nephew has some pretty elaborate drawings and stories too.....perhaps it is human nature to use stories and images in relation to those stories as a means of explaining things that we don't understand or that could never be possible (we have fantasy authors and artists to this very day - who is to say that the writings on the wall of the cave are to be taken literal? - a tad presumptuous don't you think????)

I would wager storytelling predates the bible, the notion of a god, oral language, and the self awareness to even realize that a "story" was even being made up.

The notion of truth would arrive after story telling but "trust" was there from inception as a natural disposition of humans - not too hard to shape minds to believe in something (especially young ones) - i too once expected a jolly red man with a white beard to come down my chimney and owe it all to my parents and extended family and friends and society in general for "keeping it convincing" while my brain wasn't fully developed -

i would be curious to see a couple of generations continue to perpetuate the myth without informing the young ones or continuing to portray santa as an absolute truth to see what percentage of the population still believed in Santa 20 years from now - i imagine the results to be similar to what the Aswang is to the phillipines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz5cYcy5 ... r_embedded

I really was a hardcore atheist when I was younger. I was like 16-17 when I was an atheist and I'm 19 now. .

OMG...sorry...but this really made me laugh.
When you were younger?? TWO years ago ???????
But...now you're mature, and you've found Jesus...and you've learned all there is to learn about the world and religion...at 19

I had a chuckle too, how does one, especially a teen, go from a "hardcore atheist" to a Christian seemingly overnight? Viprium, did you have a life altering experience that made you see the so-called light? Or is this new found love of the Christian 'God' a passing phase for you? Since you did say that you were a conspiracy theorist but not anymore in your OP it seems like your beliefs change with the seasons... And that's okay - you're still so young. Take the time now to research and experience all sorts of faith and decide what feels right for you. Who knows, you may end up truly being a Buddhist! Don't attach labels on yourself until you know in your heart what your permanent beliefs are.

No, they are not an ethnicity, though many Jews can claim such ethnicity. If you were bored and disinterested, why did you venture beyond mere opinion, to assert "Jews are most definitely among the most historically ancient and confirmed and controversial ethnoreligious races on the planet."

As for my view that they are best described as a civilization, I claim no originality, but offer the views of Barbara Kay (a Jew):

"We must look beyond such narrow words as “race” and “culture,” since in both cases the Jewish condition escapes these rigid molds: Conversion into Judaism endows the convert with all the same rights and obligations of any other Jews, so race is not an issue, and indeed there are white Jews and black Jews and every shade in between; and as for cultures, Jews have always tended to take on, more or less, the cultural attributes of their historical bivouacs. An English Jew and a Yemeni Jew could pray together, but would have little else in common."

And Mordecai Kaplan, author of Judaism as a Civilization, who maintained the Jews encompass the four components of a viable civiliation: a sacred piece of land; a sacred language unique to that people; a constitution -- some document or series of texts -- that set forth the values and principles guiding the social behaviour of the group; and what he called “folkways,” sacred rituals, days, anniversaries -- the basis, as the civilization developed, for the organic evolution of unique music, art forms and other cultural expressions of group identity that periodically united the people in ceremonies designed to further renewed cohesion. Of the four, he maintained that a constitution -- Talmud and Torah in this case -- was the one immutable factor in civilzational perpetuation.

You are not the only person confused on this issue, and such confusion too often carries over into other, less sanguine, opinions about the Jews, so I though some clarification was in order.

Jews are not a race. They are perhaps best defined as a civilization.

Wow...

Talk about chasing butterflies...

My original comment about Jewish/Judaic folks was mentioned among other religious groups to illustrate how off track religion can be from having actual faith.

Why were those other groups not similarly latched onto and discussed??

As witnessed by the last few posts one can see how easily humans are led astray about true faith by opinion and half truths especially when the "Doubting Thomases" are leading the pack into the fray...

It isn't just my opinion that Jews are a distinct peoples when the facts are good enough to be mentioned thosands of years ago in the bible and good enough for the UN to return the Jews to their biblical homeland after the attempt of mass extinction of Jewish peoples by the Nazis; than that historical opinion is good enough for me. These "opinions" were put forth long before I was born.

More correctly the Israelite/Hassidic/Ashkenazi peoples can be classified as a sub-"race" of Caucasians (hence Georgian homeland notions), much like our native aboriginal cultures in North america can be classified as a sub-race of the Oriental "race".

Native aboriginals however are as distinct an ethnocultural group from their parent race as the Jewish people are from other Caucasoids.

Were they not, the Chinese would have a legal claim to North and South America.

Is that where some of you are going with this?? Islamists??

What a weird response. Just what are you responding to?

As for specifics, I never denied the Jews were a "people", distinct or otherwise. I pointed out they were not a race, or even a "sub-race", whatever that is, and trying to enlist the UN to this cause isn't going to get you anywhere. The Jews were accorded a homeland for a variety of reasons of pragmatism, dating back to the Balfour Declaration and building upon that over succeeding decades. The Holocaust was, at best, the trigger for the UN to accede to the formation of homelands for both the Jews and the Palestinians on lands that had been mandated for that purpose following WWI.

What I did say, and supported it with authoritative opinion, is that the Jews constitute a civilization (which you apparently never disputed), though I'd also be happy with ethnocultural group as long as we recognize the limitations of such a characterization. Your comparison of Jews to native aboriginals is well off the mark, though, for a variety of reasons, not least that a Jew, and not aboriginals, can be of any ethnocultural group or race. And the Hebrews were racially and genetically undistinguished from their cousins throughout what is called the Fertile Crescent.

So... OK...

"...authoritative opinion(???)..." about Jews aside...

What are all your your Views on Life then??

also...

Just for the record, and after parsing through all the parsing; I've made no direct comparisons to Jews and native aboriginals; only the similarity of classifying peoples into "sub-races" (not my term) which was intended to point out the broad ethnic variations within a given "racial" classification and which has been historically and "authoritatively" sufficient to designate, separate and situate disparate peoples into their rightful homelands (not just Jewish peoples).

I've also previously noted that Jewish peoples have a common bloodline, genetically undistinguished from their "fertile crescent cousins" (not my term); so thanks for acknowledging my comments as your own.

The continual abbreviating, misquoting and editing techniques of clipping and pasting the comments of others out of context used here on this thread (and whole forum?) could also be considered equally spuriously weird responses here...

[Homeownertoo]

This is a bit much, but I'll try once again.

For the record, you stated "the Israelite/Hassidic/Ashkenazi peoples can be classified as a sub-"race" of Caucasians (hence Georgian homeland notions), much like our native aboriginal cultures in North america can be classified as a sub-race of the Oriental "race"."

Please find for us a reputable authority for your claim that the Israelites can be classified as a sub-race of Caucasians. They are causcasian, period. They were never separated from the mainstream of caucasian peoples, unlike our native Indian peoples, who thus went through approx. 15,000 years of cultural and physical evolution separate from the Oriental 'race'. A small point but I don't know why you are sticking to this erroneous comparison.

More important, no such classification of sub-races was ever part of the rationale for according the Jews a homeland in the Mideast, as I have indicated previously. Please do some homework before making such assertions.

I also resent your insinuation that I would claim authorship for your comments. Quite apart from the issue of plagiarism, it is extremely unlikely that I would ever see any advantage in borrowing from your confused thinking. To illustrate the point, I never said (as you claim I stole from you) that Jews have a common bloodline undistinguished from their fertile crescent cousins. I said the "Hebrews" had such a common bloodline. Jews today are made up of virtually all bloodlines.

And are you seriously challenging my claim to having offered an authoritative opinion on the classification of Judaism as a civilization? I offered two sources for that opinion, including the author of a book called Judaism as a Civilization, a man who was a rabbi, essayist and author of several books, earned his PhD from Columbia University, was an educator and the co-founder of the movement of reconstructionist Judaism. That's not good enough for you? You have more authoritative opinion challenging that view? No, I didn't think so. Maybe you should reflect on the meaning of the phrase put up or shut up.

As for my view on life, I have none to offer here till I have some assurance my views would at least be read in good faith and not as I have seen from you so far.

[Meema]

This is a bit much, but I'll try once again.

For the record, you stated "the Israelite/Hassidic/Ashkenazi peoples can be classified as a sub-"race" of Caucasians (hence Georgian homeland notions), much like our native aboriginal cultures in North america can be classified as a sub-race of the Oriental "race"."

Please find for us a reputable authority for your claim that the Israelites can be classified as a sub-race of Caucasians. They are causcasian, period. They were never separated from the mainstream of caucasian peoples, unlike our native Indian peoples, who thus went through approx. 15,000 years of cultural and physical evolution separate from the Oriental 'race'. A small point but I don't know why you are sticking to this erroneous comparison.

More important, no such classification of sub-races was ever part of the rationale for according the Jews a homeland in the Mideast, as I have indicated previously. Please do some homework before making such assertions.

I also resent your insinuation that I would claim authorship for your comments. Quite apart from the issue of plagiarism, it is extremely unlikely that I would ever see any advantage in borrowing from your confused thinking. To illustrate the point, I never said (as you claim I stole from you) that Jews have a common bloodline undistinguished from their fertile crescent cousins. I said the "Hebrews" had such a common bloodline. Jews today are made up of virtually all bloodlines.

And are you seriously challenging my claim to having offered an authoritative opinion on the classification of Judaism as a civilization? I offered two sources for that opinion, including the author of a book called Judaism as a Civilization, a man who was a rabbi, essayist and author of several books, earned his PhD from Columbia University, was an educator and the co-founder of the movement of reconstructionist Judaism. That's not good enough for you? You have more authoritative opinion challenging that view? No, I didn't think so. Maybe you should reflect on the meaning of the phrase put up or shut up.

As for my view on life, I have none to offer here till I have some assurance my views would at least be read in good faith and not as I have seen from you so far.

It is a bit much so ignore him...tell the rest of us!

[janalta]

The continual abbreviating, misquoting and editing techniques of clipping and pasting the comments of others out of context used here on this thread (and whole forum?) could also be considered equally spuriously weird responses here...

Well 5V...at least people are attempting to edit things down a bit so that their posts are not an entire page long...including quotes of quotes, on top of more quotes from 5 or 6 different posters...so that no one here has a clue what your point is or who's comments you are referring to.

Seriously.....did you copy enough quotes there? I think there may be one or two on previous pages that you forgot to include.

[5VP]

Yeah yeah, you're rubber, I'm glue... Welcome to grade 2...

Put up or shut up ?? Really ?? You're seriously thinking that you hold the definitive final say on this?? WOW!!!

Where is your Curriculum Vitae on all matters racial??

So what about this bit of non-authoritative opinion?? (still getting a chuckle out of that)

http://www.racialcompact.com/racesofhumanity.html

But.. OK... So your "Wikipedia" and all other reference sources aside I'll agree for the mediating sake of compromise and to get back on thread here that...

According to your "authoritative opinion" (love the irony of that) there are no discernible differences between Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Native First Nations peoples etc. as they are all simply Oriental and they all agree to that.

The end...

There are no discernible differences between the Irish, Scottish, Italians, Germanic, Spanish, Slavic, Jewish peoples etc..

They are all simply Caucasian and they all agree to that.

The end.

All Negroid peoples belong to one big happy Tutsi/Hutsi family and they all agree to that.

The end.

The genetic difference between apes and humans is so slight (3%) as to be insignificant and we can all agree to that.

The end.

Or is it that we all look the same to you (back hair notwithstanding)?

So, now that we are all in agreement here; What is YOUR view on LIFE???

If, as you say, you have nothing to offer here, after others have done so here, than it could be, by some, construed as fear or doubt or a lack of faith in your own belief of anything of consequence whether atheistic or not. Why then, would you expect anybody to give due creedence to such a vague outlook or accept any criticism from you of their own faith??

As far as who might be confused here, I suggest that you do your homework and review back through the thread and figure out where a thread about "My view on Life" became corrupted and by whom to become a "sub" thread about racialism.

To accuse one of ignorance of a topic that was not part of the original course of discussion is rather absurd and seems to be a dodgy attempt at flim flam because they couldn't successfully argue against one persons choosing to live life with all encompassing faith as opposed to atheism.

Amen...