God - Yes, Bible - Sometimes, Church - Never

[coffeeFreak]

We don't need god because he is an old "idea" humans came up with to try and explain the ways of the world. -We now have a modern justice system to replace the idea of god.
We don't need jesus because we have modern leaders that give better advice that is current to our state of affairs.
We don't need the bible because we have modern laws and principles that work better with our modern culture.
We don't need churches because we have modern schools, modern concerts, and modern psychology.

Life is easier, richer and more fulfilling without the concepts of god, jesus and the bible's contradicting and false concepts of reality.
I once was part of the church when I was child. Naturally I educated myself and grew out of the idea of god and jesus such as I did with Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. I have educated myself and understand what modern science has proven about how we exist and where we came from. I'm more likely to take a scientists advice over a Pastors now. My reasoning: Scientists spend most of their lives trying to understand and prove beyond reasonable doubt a concept. The scientist will humbly (and and more often than not happily) admit failure if proven wrong. A Pastor spends most of his life trying to convince people of an old ideas that hardly makes any sense and he will stubborn and ignorantly take his ideas to the grave with him.

I now live a more wholesome life with the realization that my only life is the existence I have on Earth right now. With this knowledge I respect the planet I live with. I try to make each and every day count because I know that my loved one's and I will only ever spend our time together on earth. There is no after life. We are all born in the manner and therefore we all die the same manner. There is no cheating that simple rule.

I have religious family members and friends that I love very much and only wish the best for. But I have seen a friends marriage crumble first hand and end up in divorce. The couple are devoted Christians, but one of the partners in marriage was breaking a few rules while the other was working out of town. Church is a large part of their lives, and I can't believe a family that surrounded themselves with the church everyday would behave in such a manner. Of course the churches were quick to offer their support. So the couple went to their church for marriage counseling and the church Councillors offer them 'prayer' and poor advice. The marriage failed miserably because my friends didn't seek proper counseling outside of the church. They have four children as well. The whole situation is a mess and always will be now. I hope someday they seek a therapist that can offer them sound advice. The church has now tried to strengthen it's Authority in marriages with Premarital Cancelling. It doesn't take a church to realize that a marriage isn't going to work out. And many churches are not calling off weddings that have "All the Signs" of failure. All it takes is a vocal friend with some compassion for their friends life ahead of them to talk them out of it.

I've also worked for a religious employer in Kelowna. His devotion to Christianity spread a little too deep into the workplace and began insulting non-believing staff members. The religious principles we're also used in daily business practice which made it even worse. In fact the boss sent out a business newsletter every Monday that had business principles mixes with Christian beliefs. The articles were a joke. It looked as if the editor had stolen Harvard Business articles and tried injecting Christianity principles among them to make it seem like these business practices were a result from the teachings and principles of God and Jesus. A few workers had been affected on a few occasions by the employers religious belief system. One occasion I remember recently was an individual becoming more and more disgruntled with his Managers tactics that he had to take a leave of absence to calm and reset himself so he didn't have a meltdown. Management only made the situation worse for him over time and when the employee finally broke down, the HR Manager offered him "Prayer" and forced him to take counseling. The employee (Christian himself) couldn't believe what the HR Manager had offered to cure the situation. Holidays and work days were often structured around Christian principles. Prayer was always done at Christmas parties. People that were offended with the emails and prayer could not say anything without taking the risk of getting in the bosses bad books. But in the employers defense, he did hire a good balance of Christian employees and non-believers. I don't know if this was because he had to venture beyond the church for talented workers or not.

Our Organic/Biological Evolution will continue to take place without god, jesus or the churches. As it always has.

Make the most of your existence on earth. This is the only moment you have. Acceptance is the first step in living happy.

When I tell Christians that I am an Atheist they look at me like I am a Satan worshiper and that I must be a truly evil person. That is far from the truth. I am actually more accepting of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles than an average Christian person. I take responsibility in everything I do in life because whatever the outcome I realize I am an adult and I made those choices myself. I accept the outcomes of all my decisions.

In fact, if you are religious and do not believe in another persons 'God' that makes you an Atheist as well (HUH?)

Men and women are all looking for the same things in life. Just in different places.

I see you are a new poster. Welcome, however the two posts I've seen by you are about no God and Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Why if you don't believe? There are a lot of other topics you could get involved in, and BTW this post has nothing at all to do with the topic. If you would like, maybe start a new discussion as it relates to your point of view.

[Captain Awesome]

EVERY CHURCH ON EARTH WILL HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.
EVERY CHURCH ON EARTH.

Of course there are good people in every church too. but they aren't good enough for me to want
to spend time there.

I think you're missing a point that people who donate to church, actually want to donate to church. They're not tricked into it, they're NOT ripped off. It's very common for church goers to have a set percentage of their income automatically go to church.

And it makes them happy.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

[forum]

I see you are a new poster. Welcome, however the two posts I've seen by you are about no God and Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Why if you don't believe? There are a lot of other topics you could get involved in, and BTW this post has nothing at all to do with the topic. If you would like, maybe start a new discussion as it relates to your point of view.

Hi Coffeefreak. Thank you for the warm welcome. I am happy you are here to read my posts. Post counts are meaningless aren't they? I have been reading this forum for years. I take part in over 15 other forums and now feel I should help enlighten a few people with some current experiences of my own and the latest findings in the educated science community. I will get to other topics in short time. These topics just happen to be the first I felt like posting in.

My post went to the Administrators of the forum before being posted. They approved it.They would have rejected it otherwise.

But I will use the topic of this post to summarize what I said above: GOD - never existed & never will, BIBLE - outdated fairy tale created by a group of unknowing, power hungry men, CHURCH - there are better places to spend your time on Sundays.

Do something kind for a stranger this week. And not because you feel you have to.

[forum]

I think you're missing a point that people who donate to church, actually want to donate to church. They're not tricked into it, they're NOT ripped off. It's very common for church goers to have a set percentage of their income automatically go to church.

And it makes them happy.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

There is something wrong with people giving away money because it 'makes them happy'. It's the same principle of 'buying things to make you happy'. And of course nobody at church really wants to donate. Ask a child on their first day at church if they want to take money from their piggybank to donate to church. Without thought they always clutch onto their piggybanks tightly with a firm "no daddy". Then we have to go through the process of "convincing" them to donate and why it "makes sense". Why do people donate? They donate because they feel the peer pressure from the people around them. They donate to convince themselves that their time spent there is worth something. They donate to associate themselves with a group of people they feel will increase they're social status or promote their business. The Phenomenon of paying for something that has little value is seen across all forms of economy. Remember the prices people were paying for a Tickle-Me-Elmo? People don't just give away their money to feel happy. They give away their money with intentions. They give it away to try and reinforce their idea that what they are doing is of value. I went to church with a friend last year and when it came to donations I said I was just visiting. I got a couple of bad glances from the members and my friend ended up donating for me because she felt uncomfortable. How long do you think I could visit a church and only donate a can of beans?

Stumbling out of a Vancouver Nightclub (many many years ago) I bought some Pizza from the Vendor outside. I was drunk and hungry. Mmmm Pizza. I turned around and saw a man cuddled up trying to stay warm. I handed him the Pizza. He looked starved. I didn't really need it THAT bad. I didn't make sure my friends were around to witness the act. I didn't ask the homeless person to "Pay it forward". I just did it because he needed it more than me and I NEVER expected anything in return from the transaction. Why is it that Church people always have to make a big public display out of their generosity. There are many large churches that sit empty until Sunday, when they could be providing shelter for the homeless during weekdays. Anytime a human starts boasting to me about something they've done, I immediately find something they are trying to hide or make up for. I gave that pizza to the homeless person ten years ago so I could write this forum post today.

[Captain Awesome]

There is something wrong with people giving away money because it 'makes them happy'. It's the same principle of 'buying things to make you happy'. And of course nobody at church really wants to donate. Ask a child on their first day at church if they want to take money from their piggybank to donate to church. Without thought they always clutch onto their piggybanks tightly with a firm "no daddy". Then we have to go through the process of "convincing" them to donate and why it "makes sense". Why do people donate? They donate because they feel the peer pressure from the people around them.

I'm sorry but that's too funny.

Next time I do a drop at Food Bank, I'll think about all that peer pressure that made me do it. And how it makes me look cool.

No point of arguing with you really.

[cutter7]

I see you are a new poster. Welcome, however the two posts I've seen by you are about no God and Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Why if you don't believe? There are a lot of other topics you could get involved in, and BTW this post has nothing at all to do with the topic. If you would like, maybe start a new discussion as it relates to your point of view.

Hi Coffeefreak. Thank you for the warm welcome. I am happy you are here to read my posts. Post counts are meaningless aren't they? I have been reading this forum for years. I take part in over 15 other forums and now feel I should help enlighten a few people with some current experiences of my own and the latest findings in the educated science community. I will get to other topics in short time. These topics just happen to be the first I felt like posting in.

My post went to the Administrators of the forum before being posted. They approved it.They would have rejected it otherwise.

But I will use the topic of this post to summarize what I said above: GOD - never existed & never will, BIBLE - outdated fairy tale created by a group of unknowing, power hungry men, CHURCH - there are better places to spend your time on Sundays.

Do something kind for a stranger this week. And not because you feel you have to.

Hi forum. If you have any scientific proof that we have evolved from another species I would like to see it. I am attaching a link to a jewish scientist who explains why he believes in creation. its a bit long but a good listen if you are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzetqYev ... re=related

[DeepEnd]

to forum,

Please keep writing on the subject. It does make for some entertaining reading.

Clearly from your writings your disdain for any religion and your glorification of science shows through. Science cannot prove what it ultimately denies exists in the first place. When it does then have proof of something they give the impression that it never existed until a scientist "discovers" it.

Science heads into a subject with it as a given that by the end of the investigation they know definitively all there is to know and others know less. Until they research more and prove themselves wrong and start the whole ball rolling again.



One question comes to my mind.

How do you scientifically demonstrate LOVE exists? You say you have loved ones but science cannot really prove love exists. Yes, scientists can see hormone changes, brain wave fluctuations but can't reproduce love.

My god, my bible and my church are based on love. Nothing else.

"Without religion, science is to blame for everything" is saying I remember from long ago.

And you gave a piece of pizza to someone else because you love your fellow man. No way to prove it. Or disprove it. Why else do it? Love is a risk only if you expect a return. When you get nothing in return and you walk away happy your love for your fellow man shows through.

It does not necessarily make you religious but it does make you part of the human experience here on earth.

[forum]

I'm sorry but that's too funny.

Next time I do a drop at Food Bank, I'll think about all that peer pressure that made me do it. And how it makes me look cool.

No point of arguing with you really.

Hi captain Awesome. Thanks for taking part in the discussions. Donating to a food bank isn't peer pressure. It makes as much sense as a fundraiser for the Cancer Society. (The money goes towards the costs of cancer research and treatments. Or the Children's Hospital. The proceeds go straight towards unfortunate children with illnesses. It is a straight up donation of food to a starving mouth.

But paying to sit in a building and worship something that doesn't exist?....hmmm.

[Captain Awesome]

Hi captain Awesome. Thanks for taking part in the discussions. Donating to a food bank isn't peer pressure. It makes as much sense as a fundraiser for the Cancer Society. (The money goes towards the costs of cancer research and treatments. Or the Children's Hospital. The proceeds go straight towards unfortunate children with illnesses. It is a straight up donation of food to a starving mouth.

Oh, I see where you're coming from. Of course you won't see much benefit from it if you only attended church once.

People donate money to church for needs just like any other charities. Churches help people financially, they provide help to low income individuals, they provide counsellings services to people who need emotional help, they provide ongoing support to people who struggle, and many other ways.

So, in this perspective church is no different than Cancer society or Food bank. Just like with Food Bank these donations go towards starving mouths or people who need help. And once again, countless people are HAPPY to donate money to church and to all these causes church provides. And yes, kids are happy to donate too.

You for some reason paint a picture where people are forced to give at a gunpoint. I'm sorry you had that experience.

[fluffy]

Why do people donate? They donate because they feel the peer pressure from the people around them. They donate to convince themselves that their time spent there is worth something. They donate to associate themselves with a group of people they feel will increase they're social status or promote their business.

It's all about the motivation behind an action. I heard a character in a televison show once say "If you do the right thing for the wrong reason the work becomes tainted, and ultimately self-destructive." I think there is truth to this, plenty of people donate just to be seen donating, helping the ultimate recipient is not their foremost goal. But there are also plenty of people on earth who have embraced the concept of selflessness and truly wish to help.

[forum]

Hi forum. If you have any scientific proof that we have evolved from another species I would like to see it. I am attaching a link to a jewish scientist who explains why he believes in creation. its a bit long but a good listen if you are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzetqYev ... re=related

Hi cutter7. Thank you for taking part in the discussions. The evidence and proof of our existence of where we came from is unquestionable at this point. The same goes for Dinosaurs. The scientific community has finally agreed after 50 years of study and research how, when, why and what killed the dinosaurs. The evidence has piled on year after year and there is no longer question. At this point if anyone denies what the scientific community agrees upon regarding the Dinosaurs, your credibility of your knowledge of the facts will be dismissed. And the agreed upon facts of the Dinosaurs definitely don't agree with what the Religious community has to offer to the discussions regarding Dinosaurs.

The same goes for our evolution. The "creditable" scientists have agreed upon how our existence came about using the compiling evidence they have found in their years of study and research. It is not just one fact that has determined our evolution, it is piles of evidence that line up. Gerald Schroeder's credibility among the science community has been dismissed by creditable scientists currently working in the Biology and Genetics fields. Gerald has the MIT titles, but he refuses to believe what scientists are currently agreeing on after evaluating their current evidence. Like most religious people, Gerald falls back on old teachings and goes against what scientists are currently studying. Geralds work mainly revolves around God. He has dedicated his workings to maintaining his belief systems. Gerald targets Richard Dawkins in his notes. Gerald is a leader in church. Richard Dawkins is a leader in the Biology and and Scientific community. Richards credibility is proven and acknowledged across the world. Dawkins life does not revolve around working against the church. Richards writing regarding religion are merely a side project to inform the uninformed. Gerald is nothing more than a Preacher that paid for a degree. He is not current in his understandings.

Now that I have watched your video, I invite you to pick up any modern fossil book and it will in a very detailed manner explain to you how our species has evolved. It's beautiful and very simple once you comprehend and accept it. The understanding of the evolution of our species has nothing bad to offer you. If you are truly ready for the realization of no god, feel free to pick up Richard Dawkins writings (not just his anti-religion books, but all of them) and it will all make sense to you afterwards.

And before you ask me to pickup a bible. I have. But finally tossed it when my modern psychology books began replacing it.

This a great discussion. I hope people reading it can finally come to terms with their lives!

[forum]

It's all about the motivation behind an action. I heard a character in a televison show once say "If you do the right thing for the wrong reason the work becomes tainted, and ultimately self-destructive." I think there is truth to this, plenty of people donate just to be seen donating, helping the ultimate recipient is not their foremost goal. But there are also plenty of people on earth who have embraced the concept of selflessness and truly wish to help.

Well said fluffy.

The difference between a church and a Cancer Society fundraiser is that the Church is pocketing a larger percentage of the donations than the Cancer Fundraising event. After all, what is going to keep the big fancy lights in the big fancy church running? The Church needs the wireless headsets and the drum kits to get their point across?...

[fluffy]

You obviously have a great deal of contempt for organized religion. I can't say I share those feelings but I'm no fan of most religions either. My spiritual path arose out of necessity, I needed a concept of God that I was comfortable with and I hadn't found anything like that in the Christian faith. The idea of an all-powerful conscious entity of some sort didn't wash, and taking the bible as an accurate historical record was just as far out there. The principles were fine, the whole live-and-let-live and help-thy-brethren things were basically good ideas, but these have been lost among centuries of literal translation and religions that seek to control through guilt and fear. The God of my understanding is something a little more....Obiwan Kenobi-ish if you get my drift.

[cutter7]

I have yet to see or read any proof fossil or other wise that shows we have evolved from another species. I have shown before a list of scientists who dismiss evolution as an explanation to our existence.

One of the questions asked in that link I provided was how did inert matter become alive? does science have an explanation for this? No

[steven lloyd]

The evidence and proof of our existence of where we came from is unquestionable at this point.

And that's why there's still so much discussion and debate on the subject - even among non-religious scientists. I actually believe the evidence strongly supports the hypothesis of physical evolution but I would not be so arrogant or naive as to assume the idea is unquestionable.