God - Yes, Bible - Sometimes, Church - Never

[averagejoe]

And King David is still a descendant of apes. Nothings changed there. BTW, who is Muhammad of Islam a descendant of?

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

[steven lloyd]

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

forum is not really looking for discussion. What he/she is seeking is the expression of some awe at his/her grade nine level understanding of science. I think that he/she has seriously underestimated the intelligence of many posters here.

[coffeeFreak]

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

forum is not really looking for discussion. What he/she is seeking is the expression of some awe at his/her grade nine level understanding of science. I think that he/she has seriously underestimated the intelligence of many posters here.

[averagejoe]

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

forum is not really looking for discussion. What he/she is seeking is the expression of some awe at his/her grade nine level understanding of science. I think that he/she has seriously underestimated the intelligence of many posters here.

Thanks Steve. Good observation! By the way I have that beer here that I still owe you!

[steven lloyd]

By the way I have that beer here that I still owe you!

I hope you're keeping it on ice

[forum]

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

forum is not really looking for discussion. What he/she is seeking is the expression of some awe at his/her grade nine level understanding of science. I think that he/she has seriously underestimated the intelligence of many posters here.

I'm sorry you feel insulted Steven. I did not mean to hurt your ego in my statements. I am not seeking personal appraisal for the hard working and smart scientists accomplishments to come to the conclusion of Evolution. I no longer seek appraisal from trying to look smart as I might have done when I was younger. Just as I no longer believe in the immature idea of creationism. I do everyday see more and more adults accepting Evolution as fact, and for the ones that don't, I offer free education so they can understand.

I have simply grown out of the idea of any sort of deity creating space, earth and everything that comes with it. I have grown out of the concept of creationism and educated myself to understand and accept Evolution as how things actually evolved into where we are now. So for the record in case anyone is wondering, I am in fact an Atheist. I once was a Christian. I've been baptized. I prayed and prayed and prayed when I was young. I accepted the notion of god. I just can't accept the silly idea of creationism now that everything has been spelled out for me by scientists. My purpose is to educate people that can't let go of their old beliefs. My offering is of compassion for fellow human's understanding of the world we live in.

To: coffeefreak, cutter7, averagejoe, deepend, zzontar and anyone else: Would you rather see Creationism or Evolution taught to Grade 9/10 students? Because they contradict each other, you can only choose one or the other.

[steven lloyd]

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

forum is not really looking for discussion. What he/she is seeking is the expression of some awe at his/her grade nine level understanding of science. I think that he/she has seriously underestimated the intelligence of many posters here.

I'm sorry you feel insulted Steven. I did not mean to hurt your ego in my statements. I am not seeking personal appraisal for the hard working and smart scientists accomplishments to come to the conclusion of Evolution. I no longer seek appraisal from trying to look smart as I might have done when I was younger. Just as I no longer believe in the immature idea of creationism. I do everyday see more and more adults accepting Evolution as fact, and for the ones that don't, I offer free education so they can understand.

[fluffy]

I am not seeking personal appraisal for the hard working and smart scientists accomplishments to come to the conclusion of Evolution. I no longer seek appraisal from trying to look smart as I might have done when I was younger. Just as I no longer believe in the immature idea of creationism. I do everyday see more and more adults accepting Evolution as fact, and for the ones that don't, I offer free education so they can understand.

I understand they have made considerable progress in the field of arrogance bypass surgery. Let me see if I can drum up some free education for you.

Would you rather see Creationism or Evolution taught to Grade 9/10 students? Because they contradict each other, you can only choose one or the other.

I would hope that the subject be presented for what it is, an ongoing controversy, and that both sides of the issue would be given. Of course that could open a real can of worms too, as the creationist view is basically Christian, and that would stretch the bounds of having school curriculum unbiased by religion. Is not the whole idea of education to give students a realistic view of the world and the tools to arrive at their own decisions?

[zzontar]

Forum, check out this article... if this microbe evolved into something different way down the road, would it be a product of creation or evolution? To me, it's a scaled down version of why it doesn't have to be one or the other.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ofuel.html

[forum]

Forum, check out this article... if this microbe evolved into something different way down the road, would it be a product of creation or evolution? To me, it's a scaled down version of why it doesn't have to be one or the other.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ofuel.html

Lot's of promise in that article. The article states that 'god' finally has some competition. Now, how is god going to exactly 'compete' with us once we begin developing the microbe. After all, he is a competitor of Evolution. Will he stand aside pouting his lips? You see, scientists clear understanding of evolution is what has led up to the ability to create the microbe. It's not as if some creationist came into the lab one morning and said "Hey guys, god just spoke to me and gave me a great idea". All modern advances in biology and relative fields at this point in time, are a direct result in the understandings of evolution. That fact that something is controversial doesn't determine that something is true or not. But there is a struggle between two parties to accept and agree on a conclusion. It just so happens that Evolution is winning most if not all of the public education and justice system battles that happen over the controversy. And of course the creationists are losing the court cases to teach creationism in public classrooms. They don't have anything to bring to the table as evidence except emotional outcry.

On February 19, 2008, the Florida State Board of Education adopted new science standards in a 4-3 vote. The new science curriculum standards explicitly require the teaching of the "scientific theory of evolution",[18] whereas the previous standards only referenced evolution using the words "change over time."[19]

In August 2008 Judge Otero ruled in favor of University of California in Association of Christian Schools International v. Roman Stearns agreeing with the university's position that various religious books on U.S. history and science, from A Beka Books and Bob Jones University Press, should not be used for a college-preparatory classes.[16] The case was filed in spring 2006 by Association of Christian Schools International against the University of California claiming religious discrimination over the rejection of five courses as college preparatory instruction.[17] On August 8, 2008, Judge Otero entered summary judgment against plaintiff ACSI, upholding the University of California's standards.[16] The university found the books "didn't encourage critical thinking skills and failed to cover 'major topics, themes and components'" and were thus, ill-suited to prepare students for college.

United Kingdom

In each of the countries of the United Kingdom, there is an agreed syllabus for religious education with the right of parents to withdraw their children from these lessons. The religious education syllabus does not involve teaching creationism, but rather teaching the central tenets of major world faiths.[65] At the same time, the teaching of evolution is compulsory in publicly funded schools. For instance, the National Curriculum for England requires that students at Key Stage 4 (14-16) be taught:

1) that the fossil record is evidence for evolution
2) how variation and selection may lead to evolution or to extinction.

Now someone at this stage can argue that Evolution is correct but god still exists and began the process of evolution. Well, god was created with the whole creationism ball of wax. So as the bible gets dismissed by public education and court systems around the world, so does god with it. Sorry, but even court systems and the public education system is dismissing creationism as only a religion.

[zzontar]

Now, how is god going to exactly 'compete' with us once we begin developing the microbe. After all, he is a competitor of Evolution. Will he stand aside pouting his lips? You see, scientists clear understanding of evolution is what has led up to the ability to create the microbe.

He's not a competitor any more than the scientist would be a competitor if the man-made microbe evolved. The creation/evolution competition would stem from from how things began at the very beginning. Scientifically speaking, there had to be an outside force that started the big bang and put time in motion as it's basically impossible to have started on it's own, and without time being in motion the outside force would more likely be a conscious one than a physical one. It's not the scientists understanding of evolution that led up to the creation of the microbe, it's their understanding of DNA.

[cutter7]

I thought you said you wanted a scientific discussion about if or there is a God?

forum is not really looking for discussion. What he/she is seeking is the expression of some awe at his/her grade nine level understanding of science. I think that he/she has seriously underestimated the intelligence of many posters here.

I'm sorry you feel insulted Steven. I did not mean to hurt your ego in my statements. I am not seeking personal appraisal for the hard working and smart scientists accomplishments to come to the conclusion of Evolution. I no longer seek appraisal from trying to look smart as I might have done when I was younger. Just as I no longer believe in the immature idea of creationism. I do everyday see more and more adults accepting Evolution as fact, and for the ones that don't, I offer free education so they can understand.

I have simply grown out of the idea of any sort of deity creating space, earth and everything that comes with it. I have grown out of the concept of creationism and educated myself to understand and accept Evolution as how things actually evolved into where we are now. So for the record in case anyone is wondering, I am in fact an Atheist. I once was a Christian. I've been baptized. I prayed and prayed and prayed when I was young. I accepted the notion of god. I just can't accept the silly idea of creationism now that everything has been spelled out for me by scientists. My purpose is to educate people that can't let go of their old beliefs. My offering is of compassion for fellow human's understanding of the world we live in.

To: coffeefreak, cutter7, averagejoe, deepend, zzontar and anyone else: Would you rather see Creationism or Evolution taught to Grade 9/10 students? Because they contradict each other, you can only choose one or the other.

I have no problem having my kids taught the THEORY of evolution. I also believe they should learn about religion as it is a huge part of our lives past and present regardless of if they choose to believe it or not.

I would prefer they educated themselves on everything and make their own choice.

We do change over time and that to me is evolution so yes I do believe in evolution I just do not believe evolution can explain how inert matter became alive . If you consider that question long enough and look at the odds of our planet being the only one we know of that can support life I do not see how you cannot believe in intelligent design.

[cutter7]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/ns/ ... concludes/

after fifty years of being an atheist flew realizes the earth was created by intelligent design.

[sooperphreek]

i agree for the most part. i subscribe to evolution in so far as the ability to adapt. i have a harder time with the whole jello turned into a creature part. and then the whole diversification and numerous species we have from one source. i can also subscribe to inteligent design. i mean if it is possible to take a leap of faith that we were all just a pile of goo then it should not be so far fetched that we just appeared one day.

[forum]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/ns/world_news/t/there-god-leading-atheist-concludes/

after fifty years of being an atheist flew realizes the earth was created by intelligent design.

Flew is an 81 year old Philosopher. Philosopher.. Flew does not have a current understanding of genetics and hasn't educated himself nor become a prominent figure in the appropriate fields. It was also written in 2004.

Cutter7, next time you google "Atheist believe in god." Check the posted date of the article, the source, and the credentials of the person preaching. Nice try though.

Feel free to address the posts I gave you. They are very informative and current.