What is a church?

[Thinktank]

My defintion:

A church is a place where I pay someone the equivalent of a seven day
vacation in Cuba, each year, to remind and encourage me to be awesomely good,
by using just a tiny little bit of 'cult-like' techniques, and
by choosing a different scripture from the bible each week, and reading it to me,
and then explaining it to me, while I meet a group of people - mostly who couldn't care less about me,
but smile every week and make phony conversations, and where I have a 90% chance of being taken to the
cleaners and losing one year's income to the church weasel, who is there strictly for the purpose of making
business deals.

Is this a fair definition of a church? Or did I just happen to be unlucky enough to have a bad experience?

(Note -
Everyone should read their bible occasionally, and think for themselves)

.

[fluffy]

Hehehe, sounds like the "enlightenment" that you got was not the same brand they were talking about in the brochure. Sure, churches are full of people who's priority is simply that others will see them there, but is that unique to churches or is there something about church that attracts this type?

Everyone should read their bible occasionally, and think for themselves

Sage advice, the bible has lots of good stuff, but in the final analysis it's just a book, and there are lots of good books out there. If you do all your shopping in just one aisle you're likely not getting a balanced diet.

[I Think]

So if god is everywhere, and the church building is sold, they de-sanctify the building, ie they take god out of the building, which makes it a home, for the buyer. How did they get the god out??? What did god have to say about it?????

There is a corollary to god being everywhere - everywhere includes inside of me, so if god is inside me, and you, what do we have to worry about?????

[JayByrd]

De-sanctifying a church isn't "taking God out of it", although I know you were being mostly sarcastic anyway.

The act of de-sanctification just makes it not a church anymore. Like decommissioning a military vessel.

The church is mostly what you make it. If you are unwilling or unable to financially support the church, I would suggest not doing so. If you're only "being told to be awesomely good" and not finding inspiration and wisdom within the sermons you hear, you probably shouldn't go to church, at least not to that one. If you only find people who couldn't care less about you, and no real fellowship and community within the congregation of your church, then you probably shouldn't go to church, at least not that one.

But you probably already knew that.

[JayByrd]

The church as an institution, as well as the individual places of worship within, are operated and controlled by man, and are therefore fallible. Your mileage may vary.

[I Think]

De-sanctifying a church isn't "taking God out of it", although I know you were being mostly sarcastic anyway.

No not sarcastic, quite earnest in fact.

The church is mostly what you make it.

You assume too much. The church is about paying tribute to an imaginary being, as directed by charlatans who try to convince people that they have an inside track to the thoughts of this imaginary being. Then you can die and go to this imaginary valhalla.

[Thinktank]

It's easy to think God is imaginary. We live in the Okanagan
and every day is calm and sunny. Nothing bad ever happens.
But after something like a tornado, which happens in southeast states,
people start to wonder more and more about God.

[Thinktank]

People start to wonder why certain things happened, and
people start to believe in God. But church doesn't work for everyone.
Some people are able to learn things on their own, and others
need a teacher.

[cutter7]

http://www.pagetutor.com/jokebreak/141.html

[I Think]

To equate natural phenomena with the actions of a mythical being is perhaps the biggest con job being perpetrated on humankind.

[laurensawyer]

Definition of an "institution", noun
1.
an organization, establishment, foundation, society, or the like, devoted to the promotion of a particular cause or program, especially one of a public, educational, or charitable character: This college is the best institution of its kind.

2.
the building devoted to such work.

3.
a public or private place for the care or confinement of inmates, especially mental patients or other disabled or handicapped persons.

All of these best describe what your so called "churches" are. Nothing more than another business established for the economical betterment of somebody else. When was the last time that you went to church and they offered you money instead of asking you for money. As far as i am concerned the church is a place of prayer and connecting with said religion, wouldn't out in the open field with same said priests doing a sermon be just as effective and CHEAPER? Why do they need these buildings with their high costs that other than the cross hanging on the wall have absolutely no relation or connection to religion when they can practice out in an open natural space just as was done thousands of years ago. The last time i went to anything even remotely associated to church was to the unitarian church here in town. I remember there was a very high lottery happening at the time and during the service they asked us "if you won the big one tonight how much would you give to the church?"......This is sick that this is what religion has come to, and the church.

[Thinktank]

A few years ago a fire burned over 200 houses in Kelowna. One house would
be burned to the ground, and another house remained untouched by the fire.
It wasn't God that did that. And when tornados or hail or hurricanes destroy
stuff it's not God that does that either. But when life is too easy, no one ever thinks
about God. When things go bad, people start to think about what they did - then they
start to think about God. But not when things are good.

There's a website that lists the incomes of most churches. One church in BC pays
$50,000/year interest charges on a $million dollar building they purchased. That's totally weird.
And with the big churches - there is a lot of money involved. If a lawyer or a millionaire or
a real estate person who made lots of sales that year gives money to a church - that's fine.
Where else they going to give their money anyway? But if a poor person contributes money
to a church, and church uses that money to pay interest to the bank - that's a crime. Church
should ONLY take money from the rich. And if they truly believed in Jesus, they would GIVE to the poor, not TAKE.

[NAB]

To me, a church is simply a place (even outdoors) for a group of people with common interests to meet and pursue their interests. Be they religious events, educational events, social events, celebratory events, charitable events, fund raising events, promotional events, membership drives, or simply board or executive meetings associated with the running and management of their organization. No different IMO than the type of events members of any other organization, even private business, gets involved in.

Their activities (provided they are legal) are no one's business but their own, just the same as any other private organization. So if someone has no interest in becoming a member of the group and participating in their activities, then the solution is quite simple - don't join, and stay away. I fail to see what it is about some folk that they feel they have the right to have any say regarding the activities of a private organization and its members they don't even belong to.

Freedom of religion and the right to practice it is enshrined in Canada's Constitution as far as I know, and from what I see some individuals and organizations, even websites, of anti-church persuasion are getting dangerously close to crossing the line that runs afoul of our human rights, discrimination, and hate speech laws.

Nab

[I Think]

So if someone has no interest in becoming a member of the group and participating in their activities, then the solution is quite simple - don't join, and stay away.

I have no problem with that Nab, as long as the Christian loonies quit knocking on my door, trying to get me to join in their fantasies, of heaven and invisible friends.

Freedom of religion and the right to practice it is enshrined in Canada's Constitution

Is it too big a stretch to say that freedom FROM religion is also enshrined?

[NAB]

So if someone has no interest in becoming a member of the group and participating in their activities, then the solution is quite simple - don't join, and stay away.

I have no problem with that Nab, as long as the Christian loonies quit knocking on my door, trying to get me to join in their fantasies, of heaven and invisible friends.

In my experience, there is only one church organization that does that nibs, and very infrequently. It is also easy to stop it. Much easier in fact than stopping door to door salespersons, reps of political organizations on membership drives, the twice annual door to door food drive by the local fire department, or even telephone soliciting by business and political groups - all of which in combination I find much much more irritating.

Freedom of religion and the right to practice it is enshrined in Canada's Constitution

Is it too big a stretch to say that freedom FROM religion is also enshrined?

As far as I know nibs, yes that is quite a stretch. But feel free to see if you can get it enshrined, just make sure that while you are at it make sure it covers everyone equally (as listed above but there may be more), ...and doesn't just discriminate against church groups.

In that way, even YOUR favourite charity or whatever product you may be selling or marketing will be prevented from disturbing me, whether at my door of via my telephone, even by e-mail spamming trying to get my "business". Be gone girl guides with your loonie cookies, and you too local school group on your bottle drive. Ahh, how peaceful you could make my world if you would do that nibs.

Edit to add: Gawd, just think, even the neighbourhood kid looking to pick up a few bucks by shovelling snow off my driveway or mowing my lawn would be breaking the law. I love it!

Hell, come to think about it, even advertising on buses and trains or any other public property might become a no-no. Dammit, we could even go so far as to prevent business from having signs on their stores or restaurants if we see a problem with churches putting a sign on their property advertising what they are and what products they offer. Oh, and we would capture all those sex shops with their scantily clad sidewalk dummies too! The possibilities are endless if we re-open our constitution with a view to protecting us FROM everything someone might find worthy of criticism in others simply because they find it personally objectionable in their own life, or have no ability, time, or brain space to accommodate it.

Nab