Question.

[fluffy]

Where do you source out this information 5VP?

[Born_again]

Getting back to the original "Question"...

Jesus is as omnipotent as God, our creator, when it comes to matters of the earth and the saving of our mortal souls.

Are you not aware of the paradox of omnipotence? I suggest you tackle that first before introducing multi-omnipotence.

Have a little think about this.

[5VP]

Of course, we humans can find paradoxes in pretty much anything. Our life existences here are meant to be lived, loved and be loved, not questioned.

God can kill god but why would god do so, when to do so would also kill all god has created and render this issue of god and Jesus moot?

We are likely living in the final days before revelation and all that needs to be revealed to us will be revealed in due time.

Therefore, the term "omnipotent" is appropriate for this forum topic as far as any humans here need concern themselves...

[5VP]

Where do you source out this information 5VP?

The bible, the urantia book, upanishads, confucious etc and observations from daily living

[Born_again]

Of course, we humans can find paradoxes in pretty much anything. Our life existences here are meant to be lived, loved and be loved, not questioned.

Who said?

God can kill god but why would god do so, when to do so would also kill all god has created and render this issue of god and Jesus moot?

No, don't try to cast the paradox off with an inane example of the paradox of omnipotence, the subject goes far deeper than that. For a man that claims he is free of urban distractions, I really am surprised that you haven't devoted much time to deep, reasoned thought on these matters that effect your life.

We are likely living in the final days before revelation and all that needs to be revealed to us will be revealed in due time.

Therefore, the term "omnipotent" is appropriate for this forum topic as far as any humans here need concern themselves...

Is that another way of saying, "Dudes, let's not contemplate the paradox of omnipotence in these forums because my whole belief system needs my two gods to be omnipotent, .... okay? Let's just drop it? Life is to love and not to question."

[fluffy]

Where do you source out this information 5VP?

The bible, the urantia book, upanishads, confucious etc and observations from daily living

I think that's the best any of us can do, to keep a wide variety of resources available and build from there. Sort of take-what-feels-right-and-leave-the-rest. That way we can each have a customized set that works for us individually. What others believe is not the issue, it's a matter of being true to ones self.

[5VP]

Of course, we humans can find paradoxes in pretty much anything. Our life existences here are meant to be lived, loved and be loved, not questioned.

Who said?

The bible has many wondrous sections about this and of course we then get back tom the matter of faith...

God can kill god but why would god do so, when to do so would also kill all god has created and render this issue of god and Jesus moot?

No, don't try to cast the paradox off with an inane example of the paradox of omnipotence, the subject goes far deeper than that. For a man that claims he is free of urban distractions, I really am surprised that you haven't devoted much time to deep, reasoned thought on these matters that effect your life.

Inane or not or whatever any opinion may be, this was merely a response to the question of whether or not I could grasp the paradox of omnipotence and this comment was my answer. I see no need to make it any more complicated than necessary for the purpose of this topic. Sitting around a campfire with some interesting people, maybe; of course the discussion would go deeper...

This point shows how you've alchemically transmuted my answer into a commentary on my lifestyle and how your inserted interpretations are just as paradoxical considering that you are someone claiming to "born again".

We are likely living in the final days before revelation and all that needs to be revealed to us will be revealed in due time.

Therefore, the term "omnipotent" is appropriate for this forum topic as far as any humans here need concern themselves...

Is that another way of saying, "Dudes, let's not contemplate the paradox of omnipotence in these forums because my whole belief system needs my two gods to be omnipotent, .... okay? Let's just drop it? Life is to love and not to question."

Nope. See above...

[Born_again]

5VP, so according to you it's the bible that tells us not to ask questions then. Thank you for clearing that up. My next question will be where to stick a book that tells me not to question!

You clearly have no logical understanding of omnipotence, so perhaps you could kindly cease embarrassing your brethren with comments like, "Jesus is as omnipotent as God, our creator". To any marginally reasoned thinker it makes a mockery of the concept of god, or gods, in your case. Whether you claim your god or gods are temporally omnipotent or atemporally omnipotent, it matters not; both will contradict themselves logically.

You are never slow to cast derision upon all of us here on Castanet by erroneously suggesting that we are all so clouded by urban distractions when we don't see things your way, and intoning that we have lost the ability of clear thought through said distractions. So, my "commentary" on your "lifestyle" only begs answers as to why you have failed to find logical consistency in thought, despite being in a geographical location that precludes urbanite distractions. Are you exposed to some other non-urbanite kind of debilitating distraction up there that can account for the inconsistency of your claims, or your clear inability to answer a question directly, if at all?

[Ub2]

Ok..just so we're clear. I am not a practicing Anglican, but I was born and baptized as such. I have Catholics, Christians, Protestants and Jehovahs in my family and many of my friends practice some form of religion. I don't question their beliefs nor do I make fun of them. However I have to wonder why so many people think its amusing to poke fun at religious people. I mean, I've seen people on here that are really ignorant about it.

I've seen people go onto a religious thread just to make fun of someone. Doesn't that just prove the point that some of them try to make that those who don't believe are ignorant. I dunno..just sayin.

I could not agree with you more here. I know that Christians are starting to be persecuted, but we have not seen anything yet.
However, when there was the fire recently over by Sailview Bay, I posted a note and ended it with, lets keep praying for everyone's saftey, well!!!!!! YOU DO NOT say the word pray in this forum!! All the athiests come out of the woodwork and attacked. What problem do they have with me praying for the saftey of our local people in an emergency? It was insane that they should get so offended by that and attack me. I decided that would be my last post, it is not like this is most other forums. There is such ignorance and hate in this place. But gee, here I am back again, a glutten for punishment. If I want to pray I will pray, and to tell me not to bother to pray for their saftey, I mean come on. I wasn't asking them to pray.
Yes there is 2 or 3 people that will come into the religious threads just to poke fun and be totally ignorant. Immature.
You cannot come into this topic even to have a Christian conversation with other Christians, the non-believers have to shove their noses into it and destroy the conversation to pieces. No other forum have I been to that was this bad.

I agree with you binky!

The op of this post started it with a mocking overtone, followed by the same with most of the posters here.

But I have a challenge to all the logical thinkers out there.

The christian bible, has many inconsistencies, in so many cases, it does not appear to make sense . . . right . . . and because of this, many cannot re-conciliate this and the existence of God, just is not logical, and therefore cannot be proved.

Then let me ask you with the same reference of thought, how come we live on this little blue globe, in this little solar system, in this milky way galaxy, this great big universe and logical thought and reasoning would say . . . "there has to be others just like us, other beings on other planets out there, how could we be the only ones . . . other planets and inhabitants have to be out there, we assume, it makes sense but we just cannot prove it . . . and there's the rub . . . prove that God doesn't exist. Well, common sense and rational has nothing to do with God's existence . . . it's all about faith, yes . . . that annoying word everybody wants an explanation for, those who have it cannot explain it, and those who don't, dismiss it because it cannot be explained . . . just like the explanation of the existence of us and our little blue globe in our universe being the only ones doesn't make sense . . . you cannot prove others on other planets exist, you can only assume they do!

I myself . . . will default to the existence of God by faith . . . not proof, because I sure would not want to get this one wrong.

[Oxl3y]

I myself . . . will default to the existence of God by faith . . . not proof, because I sure would not want to get this one wrong.

Why? Why should it matter if you don't have faith. I am going to live my life as a good person and a man of science and when I die if it turns out I'm wrong and there is god and heaven above I'll square up at the pearly gates and what supposed merciful god would deny me access for not believing. This idea of its my way or the hell way that some religions seem to hold is what a lot of people find so offensive in my opinion.

[Born_again]

I agree with you binky!

The op of this post started it with a mocking overtone, followed by the same with most of the posters here.

But I have a challenge to all the logical thinkers out there.

The christian bible, has many inconsistencies, in so many cases, it does not appear to make sense . . . right . . . and because of this, many cannot re-conciliate the existence of God, just is not logical, and therefore cannot be proved.

I'm not sure of what you mean by "re-conciliate", but whatever it means it would likely be incorrect anyway. A lack of belief in the existence of god or gods is not something that is forged by inconsistencies and contradictions in the bible, so don't flatter yourself. People usually arrive at their conclusion that there probably is no god/gods by far more rigorous routes than the 'good book' has to offer.

Then let me ask you with the same reference of thought, how come we live on this little blue globe, in this little solar system, in this milky way galaxy, this great big universe and logical thought and reasoning would say . . . "there has to be others just like us, other beings on other planets out there, how could we be the only ones . . . it just doesn't make sense" and it doesn't.
Other planets and inhabitants have to be out there, we assume, it make sense but we just cannot prove it . . . and there's the rub, proof that God exists.

There is proof that life exists on this planet, which gives credence to the probability that life can exist elsewhere in the Universe.
Here's the rub:
There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of a metaphysical entity, so is it fair or even logical that we start giving credence to people who demand that we should consider the probabilities that there may be a metaphysical entity? Absolutely not!

Well, common sense and rational has nothing to do with God's existence . . . it's all about faith, yes . . . that annoying word everybody wants an explanation for, those who have it cannot explain it, and those who don't, mock it because it cannot be explained . . . just like the explanation of the existence of us and our little blue globe in our universe, doesn't make sense, and you cannot prove others exist, you can only assume they do!

I myself . . . will default to the existence of God by faith . . . not proof, because I sure would not want to get this one wrong.

No, you know full-well what faith is, but you just hate to admit the you have committed to a belief in something by suspending rational thought and judgement. Then, to make matters worse you have the downright temerity to cry foul about "mocking" or "persecution" everytime someone says something rational!! Get a grip!

[Ub2]

I agree with you binky!

The op of this post started it with a mocking overtone, followed by the same with most of the posters here.

But I have a challenge to all the logical thinkers out there.

The christian bible, has many inconsistencies, in so many cases, it does not appear to make sense . . . right . . . and because of this, many cannot re-conciliate the existence of God, just is not logical, and therefore cannot be proved.

I'm not sure of what you mean by "re-conciliate", but whatever it means it would likely be incorrect anyway. A lack of belief in the existence of god or gods is not something that is forged by inconsistencies and contradictions in the bible, so don't flatter yourself. People usually arrive at their conclusion that there probably is no god/gods by far more rigorous routes than the 'good book' has to offer.

Then let me ask you with the same reference of thought, how come we live on this little blue globe, in this little solar system, in this milky way galaxy, this great big universe and logical thought and reasoning would say . . . "there has to be others just like us, other beings on other planets out there, how could we be the only ones . . . it just doesn't make sense" and it doesn't.
Other planets and inhabitants have to be out there, we assume, it make sense but we just cannot prove it . . . and there's the rub, proof that God exists.

There is proof that life exists on this planet, which gives credence to the probability that life can exist elsewhere in the Universe.
Here's the rub:
There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of a metaphysical entity, so is it fair or even logical that we start giving credence to people who demand that we should consider the probabilities that there may be a metaphysical entity? Absolutely not!

Well, common sense and rational has nothing to do with God's existence . . . it's all about faith, yes . . . that annoying word everybody wants an explanation for, those who have it cannot explain it, and those who don't, mock it because it cannot be explained . . . just like the explanation of the existence of us and our little blue globe in our universe, doesn't make sense, and you cannot prove others exist, you can only assume they do!

I myself . . . will default to the existence of God by faith . . . not proof, because I sure would not want to get this one wrong.

No, you know full-well what faith is, but you just hate to admit the you have committed to a belief in something by suspending rational thought and judgement. Then, to make matters worse you have the downright temerity to cry foul about "mocking" or "persecution" everytime someone says something rational!! Get a grip!

First off my post was an unedited version of which I needed to tweak to put a couple of points in their proper context and I apologize for that.

1. I'm not forcing my belief on anyone, your free to believe whatever you want, live and die the way you want.
2. I'm not crying "persecution", those are your assumptions not my words.
3. Many people have feelings of surety without rationale or explanation . . . some call it faith.
4. Yes, many posters here have mocked or made light of beliefs others take seriously.
5. I'm quite confident I've got a better grip on reality than you.

You're arrogant, self-righteous and insulting. . . and you're response proved my point.

[fluffy]

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of a metaphysical entity, so is it fair or even logical that we start giving credence to people who demand that we should consider the probabilities that there may be a metaphysical entity? Absolutely not!

On the same token, is it fair or even logical to dismiss people's rights to hold their own beliefs, or to suggest that there is something wrong with them when those beliefs do not march in lockstep with yours?

[5VP]

5VP, so according to you it's the bible that tells us not to ask questions then. Thank you for clearing that up. My next question will be where to stick a book that tells me not to question!

You clearly have no logical understanding of omnipotence, so perhaps you could kindly cease embarrassing your brethren with comments like, "Jesus is as omnipotent as God, our creator". To any marginally reasoned thinker it makes a mockery of the concept of god, or gods, in your case. Whether you claim your god or gods are temporally omnipotent or atemporally omnipotent, it matters not; both will contradict themselves logically.

You are never slow to cast derision upon all of us here on Castanet by erroneously suggesting that we are all so clouded by urban distractions when we don't see things your way, and intoning that we have lost the ability of clear thought through said distractions. So, my "commentary" on your "lifestyle" only begs answers as to why you have failed to find logical consistency in thought, despite being in a geographical location that precludes urbanite distractions. Are you exposed to some other non-urbanite kind of debilitating distraction up there that can account for the inconsistency of your claims, or your clear inability to answer a question directly, if at all?

Wow!!!

No wonder business has been so good here in the wilderness lately.

You can just see the tension in your words jumping off the screen.

You left out the most critical portion of what I stated in the quote you have so vehemently latched onto and of course there is more to this .


"...when it comes to matters of the earth and the saving of mortal souls"...

Compared to us mortals, Jesus is omnipotent and has been given this omnipotence from God the father as we all have been should we choose to expand our faith in God's gifts of living and interaction which we all endure and enjoy.

[Born_again]

First off my post was an unedited version of which I needed to tweak to put a couple of points in their proper context and I apologize for that.

The bottom line is that your "blue dot" metaphor was not a good choice for arguing fair value of probabilities of extraterrestrial life and probabilities of metaphysical entities. There is not 'faith' that there is extraterrestrial life, but a real probability. It was a bad choice, that's all.

1. I'm not forcing my belief on anyone, your free to believe whatever you want, live and die the way you want.

I'm not forcing my absence of belief on anyone as that would be logically impossible. I don't expect you to understand that.

2. I'm not crying "persecution", those are your assumptions not my words.

"I agree with you binky!". Remember that? Agreeing with the queen of persecution on matters relating to persecution?

3. Many people have feelings of surety without rationale or explanation . . . some call it faith.

I agree, I see it all the time when children have faith that the tooth fairy or santa will favour them with a visit. Same thing.

4. Yes, many posters here have mocked or made light of beliefs others take seriously.

They feel mocked, but only because they desperately cling to what they truly know to be untenable 'Truths'.

5. I'm quite confident I've got a better grip on reality than you.

I hope that's not a touch of arrogance showing through. ;-)

You're arrogant, self-righteous and insulting. . . and you're response proved my point.

Well said! Where did you learn that? Think about it.