If you hate religion and don't believe in God, why?

[Mr Danksworth]

That line of argument makes religion out to be a work of speculative or science fiction. A lot of 'imagine/what if's' based on a fertile imagination...which it is. Thank Zontar, you are closer than you know.

[zzontar]

So what do you believe in Danky, that all the elements that make up the universe just appeared one day, or that they existed forever with no beginning?

[fluffy]

How about 'I don't know for sure, but to the best of my knowledge and according to the information and evidence presented, the answer is most probably 'no'.

This is subject to change if suitable evidence becomes available.

Spoken like a true agnostic.

[cliffy1]

The big bang is just a theory. We don't know for sure how the universe/multiverse came into existence. Perhaps it has always been here. All physics theories break down at the point of the big bang. None can reconcile the absence of material at this point. People talk as if there is only one or the other - god or big bang, yet neither can be proven or disproven.

When it comes to science we are still in kindergarten. Some day, maybe, we will advance to the point where we can say for sure what happened, but I doubt it will happen in any of our life times.

[Nebula]

So what do you believe in Danky, that all the elements that make up the universe just appeared one day, or that they existed forever with no beginning?

One can extend that line of questioning to, what do you believe, that absolutely nothing existed and one day an all powerful being appeared, or that the all powerful being existed forever with no beginning? Does that sound more 'scientific' to you?

[Mr Danksworth]

So what do you believe in Danky, that all the elements that make up the universe just appeared one day, or that they existed forever with no beginning?

Didn't you learn this in school? Anyway, in case you missed that class, here's a condensed answer from everybody's favorite source of basic information...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element
The chemical elements are thought to have been produced by various cosmic processes, including hydrogen, helium (and smaller amounts of lithium, beryllium and boron) created during the Big Bang and cosmic-ray spallation. Production of heavier elements, from carbon to the very heaviest elements, proceeds by stellar nucleosynthesis, and these were made available for later solar system and planetary formation by supernovae, which blast these elements into space.[4] The high abundance of oxygen, silicon, and iron on Earth reflect their common production in such stars, after the lighter gaseous elements and their compounds have been subtracted. While most elements are generally viewed as stable, a small amount of natural transformation of one element to another also occurs in the present time, through decay of radioactive elements as well as other natural nuclear processes.

[fluffy]

Yeah, but where did they come from? What was around before the big bang?

[Nebula]

Fudge.

[Mr Danksworth]

Yeah, but where did they come from? What was around before the big bang?

Fudge is right.

The elements were formed after the big bang, they had no existence beforehand. As to what was there before the bang, I don't know. Not that it matters, Pre-time is one of the last fingerholds of the god concept. The discoveries of the human race over the millennia have pushed and relegated the god concept into the dustbin of conceptual pre-time.

Just so you know, you are getting really close to pulling a 'Gish Gallop", be wary.

[fluffy]

As to what was there before the bang, I don't know.

Hold on to that thought.

Just so you know, you are getting really close to pulling a 'Gish Gallop", be wary.

Gish was just another fanatic who didn't let a shortage of evidence keep him from claiming he had all the answers. He had trouble with the "I don't know" concept too.

[Mr Danksworth]

Hold on to that thought.

I'm sure that within my lifetime the origins of the big bang and what there was before will be figured out. I highly doubt that there is a god hiding behind that rock, just like every other scientific discovery for the last 1000 years.

[fluffy]

I highly doubt that there is a god hiding behind that rock...

I suppose that would depend on just what manner of "God" you are choosing not to believe in. I suspect you have fallen prey to the traditional "benevolent dictator" sort of God promoted by most theistic religions, a God concept that has been losing ground steadily for some years now due specifically to its inability to reconcile with modern science.

For me it makes sense to stay open to the possibilities, the idea that there may be things of wonder and beauty out there that have so far defied scientific detection.

[cliffy1]

I suppose that would depend on just what manner of "God" you are choosing not to believe in. I suspect you have fallen prey to the traditional "benevolent dictator" sort of God promoted by most theistic religions, a God concept that has been losing ground steadily for some years now due specifically to its inability to reconcile with modern science.

For me it makes sense to stay open to the possibilities, the idea that there may be things of wonder and beauty out there that have so far defied scientific detection.

Precisely. We just don't know, so why eliminate any possibilities at this point. All I know is what I have experienced in life. Everything else is just someone else's opinion or speculation. I try not to believe in anything, which leaves infinite possibilities to present themselves.

[Mr Danksworth]

Either way. The concept of god is a null-hypothesis. If you put god into an equation, the answer is the same as it was without. And yes, the Abrahamic version of god is about as infantile, silly and patriarchal as it gets.

[zzontar]

Fudge is right.

The elements were formed after the big bang, they had no existence beforehand. As to what was there before the bang, I don't know. Not that it matters, Pre-time is one of the last fingerholds of the god concept. The discoveries of the human race over the millennia have pushed and relegated the god concept into the dustbin of conceptual pre-time.

Just so you know, you are getting really close to pulling a 'Gish Gallop", be wary.

Ah, but it does matter. Either there was something before that existed forever and had no beginning, or it appeared from nothing. I don't believe everything could have come from nothing, which leaves a concept which is more likely but one which defies science, which I'm fine with as I'm confident we're not even at the kindergarten level of knowledge.